Buying a house without planning permission or building regulation certificate

Jacquelyne

Hi everyone,


I’ve been visiting the forums for a while now and I have picked up lots of handy advice and tips from you all. I’m looking for a bit of advice and guidance about our situation and if anyone can offer their input I would be very grateful.


My partner and I are in the process of buying our first home together. Its a 1930’s mid terrace (ex council) house. It was previously STC back in October but the sale fell through. According to the estate agent, the previous buyers were unhappy with the results of their building survey which highlighted that the external rendering around the house was in very poor condition and needed replacing. They obtained quotes for the work of around £6,000 but they decided not to proceed with the purchase. The house was placed back on the market in January at £25,000 below the original asking price. We viewed the house and after considering the work that needed doing, we put in an offer of a further £10,000 below the current asking price. It was rejected at first but the sellers reconsidered a few weeks later and decided to accept our offer because they wanted a quick sale.


Now the searches have now come back and the following issues have come to light -


1. Planning permission was not obtained for the conservatory/extension at the back of the house.


2. Being an ex-council house, there is a restrictive covenant in place requiring the councils permission to be sought before making any alterations to the property. As far as we can see, no such permission was obtained for the conservatory/extension. The front garden has also been paved over to create parking for two cars at the front of the house and no permission was obtained for this either.


3. Some time ago, a chimney breast was removed on a party wall but there is no evidence of building regulation approval for this.


The vendors have only owned the house since 2011 and all of the above works were carried out before they bought it so I’m surprised that none of these issues were raised when they bought the house. Our solicitor contacted their solicitor for further information but we received a very vague response from them to the effect of – The current owners did not carry out these works and so they don’t have any further information available to give us.


We are waiting for our solicitor to investigate further but he has been very slow and I don’t honestly know whether there is anything else he can do if the current vendors simply don’t know when the work was carried out. I understand that the lack of planning permission will not be an issue if the conservatory was built over 10 years ago, but how do we find out and prove when the work was carried out?


The issue regarding the chimney concerns me because I’m sure this will be a red flag for future buyers if/when we come to sell. At present we have not had our own building survey carried out, but we have been provided with the survey report that the previous buyers (from back in October) had carried out and their report states that - The chimney breast on the party wall has been historically removed. There is evidence of additional support for the remaining stack that appears to be functioning correctly. There should be building control approval for this work - To me, this appears to suggest that the surveyor has no concerns regarding the adequacy of the work and so we can be fairly confident that the property is structurally sound. However, will the lack of a building regulations certificate put off future buyers?


Do we walk away from the sale? We like the house very much, it is in a nice area and compared to other houses around here we are getting a lot for our money.
Do we apply for an indemnity policy to cover against any enforcement action by the council?
If we proceed with the sale and then try to apply for retrospective approval from the council, is there any way we can know whether it is likely to be approved or not (i.e. by hiring a surveyor to come and inspect it before we apply for approval?)
Could we proceed with the purchase but request a retention amount from the sellers to be held back to cover the cost of rectifying the work if we do apply for approval but it gets declined? If so, could anyone provide us with a very rough estimate for how much it might cost to secure the chimney stack in line with current building regulations?


Sorry for the very lengthy post and for probably sounding very naïve, but I’m trying to understand all of our available options right now and would also like get an idea of what others would do in this situation?


Many thanks!

davidmcn

Jacquelyne wrote: »

I understand that the lack of planning permission will not be an issue if the conservatory was built over 10 years ago, but how do we find out and prove when the work was carried out?

It's difficult to prove these things if there's no paperwork, but you (or your surveyor) should be able to have an educated guess at how old it looks.

I presume any extension would have been after it was bought from the council, so when was that? (should be apparent from the titles)

In practice, unless there is suspicion that the works are actually very recent, an indemnity policy covers the lack of paperwork adequately for the purposes of you, your lender, and future buyers (and obviously it will be even more ancient history by the time you sell).

vw100

You can retrospectively get BC sign off from local authority, on the chimney after buying to get paper work in order. There might be remedial work to be done though.

Cakeguts

Is there a dropped kerb at the front of the property so that you can get the cars off the concreted front garden without driving down a kerb? If not that might be the reason why the last people dropped out of the sale.

Petriix

We bought our first house a couple of years ago and it has/had a number of similar issues. It's understandable that you are worried, but, from the extensive reading I've done, I would suggest that you are extremely unlikely to ever face any consequences as a result of these things.

There are two separate issues: generally, conservatories (and most extensions) don't require planning permission so you are looking at failure to get building control approval rather than a planning breach. Works undertaken without building regs more than a year old are unlikely to require remedial work unless they are dangerous. There is some ambiguity around this but, generally, the older it is, the less of an issue it is likely to be. In any case, an indemnity policy is sufficient to satisfy the mortgage lender, and they are the only people likely to care.

Regarding the covenant: as far as I can tell, for the covenant to be enforceable, there would have to be a demonstrable loss to the covenant holder. I have found no evidence of a local authority ever taking legal action against someone for breaching such a covenant. I really wouldn't worry.


If you like the house then buy it!

ProDave

The conservatory probably did not need planning permission and in any case is beyond the enforcement time limit. If you are worried ask for a certificate of Lawful Development from the council (basically you got away with it for long enough they can do nothing, even if they wanted to)

The chimney breast alteration is beyond the building control enforcement time. I would be more interested in a surveyor saying it is safe or it is not safe.

The council covenant can be covered by an indemnity policy.

EachPenny

Petriix wrote: »

We bought our first house a couple of years ago and it has/had a number of similar issues. It's understandable that you are worried, but, from the extensive reading I've done, I would suggest that you are extremely unlikely to ever face any consequences as a result of these things.

There are two separate issues: generally, conservatories (and most extensions) don't require planning permission so you are looking at failure to get building control approval rather than a planning breach.

That isn't strictly true, and to avoid other forum members being misled it is important that they are aware that advice is too simplistic.

In certain specific cases planning consent isn't required because it is "permitted development". The rules on permitted development are complex and each proposal needs to be looked at in the context of the specific property. For example, conservatories and extensions (of any type) will almost certainly require planning consent if the building is in a conservation area or permitted development rights have otherwise been removed.

The rules are also different depending on where on the building the extension/conservatory is going - an extension/conservatory at the front of a house is very likely to need planning consent.

Petriix wrote: »

Regarding the covenant: as far as I can tell, for the covenant to be enforceable, there would have to be a demonstrable loss to the covenant holder. I have found no evidence of a local authority ever taking legal action against someone for breaching such a covenant. I really wouldn't worry.

But for confidentiality requirements I could give you a list of properties where the LA has started down the route of taking legal action against someone for breach of a covenant. Usually they are resolved through negotiation and early resolution of the breach, hence they are unlikely to be widely reported in legal sources. But I do have first hand knowledge of one case in which a householder refused to stop using a driveway constructed in breach of a covenant and that did go as far as a court hearing.

stator

Planning permission and building regulations sign off for old works wouldn't bother me. The council aren't going to come after you after all this time. These sorts of things can be sorted with an indemnity policy if it is required, but don't bother unless your mortgage lender requires one, because they are a waste of money.



The structural question is one you need answering. Get a proper structural engineer to look at what has been done and determine if it is safe.

Jacquelyne

Thank you for all of your replies.


davidmcn - The house was purchased from the council in 1999. I've tried to look at some old aerial photos online. I can clearly see that the conservatory was there on Google maps in 2011. There is another aerial image taken in 2010 but it is very grainy and difficult to make out but to me, it looks like the conservatory isn't there. From this I'm inclined to think that the conservatory was built around 2011.


vw100 - This would be our ideal solution. We are just concerned about opening up a can of worms and then facing a large bill to rectify the work. Although, in the worst case scenario, I cant think we are talking tens of thousands of pounds to make sure the remaining chimney stack is stabilised correctly.


Cakeguts - It a wide driveway and the two cars fit aide by side. There is a dropped kerb on the left side but not on the right. Hard to explain so I'll link to a photo of the property - imgur.com/xOvmwME


Petriix - I think my main problem is whether this will put people off if we try to sell in the future. Truthfully I don't know if/when we will ever sell the property on. It has more than enough space for the 2 of us right now and it has 3 bedrooms so if our circumstances do change in the future, we would still have plenty of room to raise a family.


ProDave - I agree that the main thing to be sure about is whether the house is safe to live in. Given that the surveyor has commented that the chimney support seems to be adequate, I feel quite confident about this. I know surveyors like to cover themselves in case of any come back, so I'd think that he wouldn't make such a claim unless he was quite sure.


EachPenny - Thank you for the clarification. It's a large conservatory and I'm sure that planning permission would have been required at the time. The general opinion seems to be to take out an indemnity policy to cover this and the covenant issue.


stator - Our mortgage company only carried out a basic valuation survey and so they are unaware about the lack of planning permission/building certificates. Is this something that the solicitor will need to make them aware of?

davidmcn

Jacquelyne wrote: »

Our mortgage company only carried out a basic valuation survey and so they are unaware about the lack of planning permission/building certificates. Is this something that the solicitor will need to make them aware of?

Even a basic valuation will refer to any apparent alterations. Surveyors generally assume all consents are in place and leave it to the solicitors to figure out what actually exists.

Cakeguts

I don't see how you are going to get two cars on there. You can't drive down the pavement only accross it so unless you have room to move the cars on the offstreet parking there will only be room for one. The one that goes straight across from the dropped kerb. You are also not allowed to park with the back of the car over the pavement so you need to check that the whole length of you car will fit on that space.



I can see that it has only got offstreet parking for one car and depending on the length of you car may not have offstreet parking at all but just a paved front garden.