UKCPM IAS Appeal ?

beamerguy

As said above and screenshot everything

The LBC must include proof of their claim, photos and give you 30 days to respond. Have they done that ?

Gladstones will have, in their usual scam mode, added a fake £60.
How have they explained this ?

Gladstones already know, and courts have told them, that they cannot add fake charges but in their incompetent way they choose to ignore the courts.

As the law (POFA2012) says ....
This additional charge is not recoverable under the protection of freedoms act 2012, Schedule 4, in your reply, you should ask them what authority they have attempting to circumvent the law and the courts own double recovery rule

They will either reply with their usual rubbish or ignore you.

Of course it is then open for the juidge to ask the same question

ABUSE OF PROCESS
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

jonnyfriendly

Thanks Beamerguy for getting back

I have received 2 letters before claims – the first dated 6/8/19 the second dated 5/8/19
The first stated 30 days to reply ( the second says I have until the 19/9/19)

Regarding the first LBC I emailed Gladstones to inform them that I was sending a subject access request to their client UKCPM to which they replied that they (Gladstones) couldn’t process but extended the Pre action protocol period to 17/9/19 – hence the second LBC deadline mentioned above.

In the meantime UKCPM have emailed on 5/9/19 to say they require further information from me, (basically ID docs) before they can assess the request. They also state that they need to fulfil this request within 1 month – poss. 2mths in some circumstances. See my request below;

‘All data held, all evidence relating to, as well as a copy of Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) dated 4/12/18 and any other outstanding PCN’s that you consider to be outstanding against me. As far as I am aware any claim must be for all outstanding PCN’s at one time. Can you also provide me with evidence of your reply to my initial response via your online appeals process on 6/12/18’

I sent further information as requested by UKPCM off last week and have had no acknowledgement or response as yet. It seems to me that Gladstones and UKCPM are not talking to each other (no surprise) the Gladstones LBC deadline of 17/9 may be superseded by whatever date their client UKCPM get back to me with details of my subject access request.

So to answer your questions Beamer

They did give some photo’s (poor quality) back in December and I suppose the initial LBC gives 30 days

However the LBC does not provide clear information on the parking charge (just says private parking charges)
No clear summary of facts
No explanation of increased costs gone up from £60 to £160
etc.etc.
So I would guess in line with previous Gladstones LBC’s they have not provided all the information.

So my next step will be to acknowledge the latest Gladstones LBC via their online form in line with Newbies thread advice and wait and see

Is this the best course of action?
Any advice gratefully accepted

j

KeithP

jonnyfriendly wrote: »

So my next step will be to acknowledge the latest Gladstones LBC via their online form in line with Newbies thread advice and wait and see

Where in the NEWBIES thread did you see anything about using their forms?

Coupon-mad

I guess by 'online form' he/she means the contact portal for Gladstones?

jonnyfriendly

Yes - the contact portal
Umkomass's response above suggests 'do as much as you can online'

jonnyfriendly

Hi
Can someone have a look at Gladstones response to my LBC (see below) - they have provided images that include a clearly marked sign in the window saying that i was unloading (at my place of work) and clear directions on how to contact me should there be a problem. No mention of or an image from UKCPM to acknowledge sign saying 30mins free parking.
Towards the end of the letter they ask 'We kindly request you to provide your dispute and the relevant documents they intend to rely on'. Do i need to respond to this and what is my next step ?
Any help gratefully received
Thanks
j

Dear
Thank you for your correspondence, the contents of which have been noted.
We believe our Letter before Claim is compliant with the most up to date version of the Pre-Action Protocol (‘the Protocol’) however and without concession, we would be grateful for clarification as to your position with respect to non-compliance with the same.

We trust the above and the enclosed clarifies our Client’s position with respect to the outstanding debt. In the event you are still unsatisfied with the above, please find below our responses to your numbered questions below;

2.1

(1) Our Client is UK Car Park Management Limited and any documents can be served on us as their solicitors in the above matter

(2) The motorist entered into a contract to park on the land pursuant to the signs with our Client. The contract allowed the motorist to park in accordance with the signs or, for a charge of £100, allowed the motorist the privilege to park outside of the conditions as stated on the signs. As the driver on the day for the charge of PCN 2206068 parked otherwise than in accordance with the signs, they accepted a charge of £100. Payment of the charge has not been forthcoming within the relevant timeframe and as such, the contract has now been breached and further costs incurred as a result of the breach in having to facilitate the recovery of the debt. Our Client’s Accredited Trade Association also states that an additional fee may be applied upon the matter being referred for enforcement.

(3) On 4 December 2018, vehicle number

---

registered to you was parked at

---

and received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

There are numerous contractual signs around the site (see site map), upon entering private land the driver entered into a unilateral contract by performance which bound them to the Terms and Conditions (TC) on the signs.

One of the TCs state vehicles must be parked wholly within a marked bay. The sign further states that failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in a parking charge of
£100.00.

Based on the information before us, the vehicle was parked on cross hatchings, therefore breached the TCs, accepted the charge and became liable for a PCN.

(4) The amount of £160 is now due and is to be paid by the motorist.

(5) Prior to our involvement, if the charge had been paid at the time of issuing and/ or within 14 days, the parking charge would have reduced to £60.00. Failing to make the payment within the time frame would make the motorist liable for the full charge of £100, as no payment was forthcoming the case was passed to ourselves and the amount increased to £160.

The £100.00 is the parking charge and the £60.00 being claimed is a charge owed to our Client for their time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of this, as a direct result of your non-payment.

No interest and no admin charges have been added until if required, we commence legal proceedings.

(6) This is irrelevant to the charge.


2.2.

(1) Please find enclosed all documents are Client is prepared to disclose at this stage, we believe their content to be self-explanatory.

(2) We understand you appealed at the time of the contravention directly to our Client, however this was rejected and you were then given the option to take further action and appeal through the Independent Appeals Service – this was not done and the chance to do so has now passed. However, as a firm of solicitors we are obliged to follow the Pre-Action Protocol and as such we are in a position to amicably settle this matter with proceedings to be seen as a last resort.

(3) Both parties are given thirty days to provide a response. In the event this time elapses, the extended period applies.

(4) Our Letter before Claim does not request for your evidence as we cannot pre-empt your dispute. Under Section 2.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, this encourages early engagement and communication between the parties, including early exchange of sufficient information about the matter to help clarify whether there are many issues in dispute.

We kindly request you to provide your dispute and the relevant documents they intend to rely on.

We trust the information provided explains our Client’s position in relation to why the debt is outstanding and in view of the evidence itself, it is our Client's position that the sum of £160 remains outstanding within 60 days from the date of this correspondence. In the event that neither a substantive response nor payment is made within this time-frame our Client may elect to issue legal proceedings without further notice.

Coupon-mad

they ask 'We kindly request you to provide your dispute and the relevant documents they intend to rely on'. Do i need to respond to this

I would, as it will look far more reasonable in front of your local Judge in 2020, when this scam will be over and you will win.

For a start point out that the ParkingEye v Beavis case, paras 98 and 198, confirm that the £60 'costs' (including alleged 'debt recovery' costs - which are a figment of UKCPM's greedy imagination and have never been incurred or paid) are not recoverable.

Then say whatever else you want about the 30 mins free that you allege was allowed. If you have a photo of that sign, then supply it to prove this was allowed parking.

jonnyfriendly

Thanks for your input Coupon - i will look into responding and quoting the Beavis case and also provide a photo of the sign saying 30mins free. My suggestion would be that they did not provide me with reasonable time to unload - i doubt they will have timed their warden's arrival and departure (usually arrives on moped, sticks on a few tickets and leaves)
As a matter of interest , you say that in 2020 the scam will be over and i will win. What do you mean by that?
Is their a new law coming in or is it just a proposal?
Thanks
j

Umkomaas

As a matter of interest , you say that in 2020 the scam will be over and i will win. What do you mean by that?
Is their a new law coming in or is it just a proposal?

The scam will be over for you when you win in court (it’s unlikely to be heard until the early part of next year).

The new law ‘Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019’ has been enabled, but we are still awaiting the actual Code of Practice to be drafted.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/pdfs/ukpga_20190008_en.pdf

Coupon-mad

I meant that the scam will be over for YOU when you win at the only fair dispute resolution for IPC cases - court.