Counterclaim advice needed, please. Claim Form Received from Northampton CCBC. Bizarre PCN case!

JungTheForeman

Hello All... any counterclaim advice would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if this is a unique case, but it's certainly bizarre!

I am an NHS nurse. On 20 July 2017, I parked in the same NHS staff car park where I have parked for many years previously, and where I have parked during every shift since. On this particular day, Britannia Parking decided to issue a PCN not only to my car, but to dozens of other cars belonging to my NHS staff colleagues. All were parked completely legitimately.

Why? I have absolutely no idea! Maybe the guy just got out of bed the wrong side, or maybe we are all part of some bizarre social experiment.

Over 18 months have passed since. Unfortunately, some of my colleagues have already caved-in, particularly at the 'debt collector' stage. Some have paid Britannia hundreds of pounds, and have had to work many extra shifts in order to pay for this.

Unbelievably to me, Britannia Parking have now issued the rest of us with Claim Forms from the County Court Business Centre. I simply can't believe they've taken it this far! My own Claim Form was issued on 26 Feb 2019.

I have all necessary evidence to defend the claim, including my original parking permit (which was absolutely 100% correctly displayed on my windscreen, as it always is), my original NHS payslip from July 2017 (showing that a £30 staff parking deduction was made), and emails from the hospital management stating that I was legitimately parked. Furthermore, possible witness statements from a couple of dozen other NHS staff who also received PCNs as part of Britannia's 'lets see how much money we can make / social experiment'.

Essentially, I want to make a counterclaim, but I really need some advice before submitting this:

1. What can I realistically claim for? Obviously, the Court fee, but anything else?
2. Can I charge my own 'legal fees' for dealing with this? Possibly £250.00 per hour?
3. Can I claim for malicious prosecution... or anything similar?
4. Can I claim for stress caused?
5. Can I claim for their interfering with my property, ie. for touching my vehicle when they had no right to do so?
6. Ideally, I'd like to issue a counterclaim for up to £5000.00. Would this be frowned upon by a County Court judge?

Once my counterclaim has been issued, I fully expect Britannia to drop their claim like a hot potato. Does this mean that my counterclaim will also be negated, or will the case still proceed?

Might it be better for all affected NHS colleagues to come together and instruct a 'no-win-no-fee' company of solicitors to pursue this case on our behalf. At the very least, those who caved in early, and paid hundreds of pounds, might have a chance of recourse.

In anticipation, many thanks for any forthcoming advice.

Fight_the_good_fight

Firstly you need to read the newbies thread several times to understand where you are .

Within the next couple of days you need to aknowledge service of the claim. All of this is explained in the newbies thread at the top of the forum page.

I am sure the more experienced members will be along in due course to offer expert advice around defending this matter such as contacting PALS and your union.

Use the interim period in reading the newbies thread

Fruitcake

Did you or anyone else get a NTK?

If you did/they and the scammers had no justifiable reason to access keeper data from the DVLA, then you/they can claim for a DPA breach. You don't have to prove any loss for this. The going rate seems to be about £500 where motorists have successfully counter claimed for this.

Anyone who has already payed can start a claim, and anyone else can make a counterclaim.

Have you and your colleagues complained to your MP about this unregulated scam?

Umkomaas

1. What can I realistically claim for? Obviously, the Court fee, but anything else?
2. Can I charge my own 'legal fees' for dealing with this? Possibly £250.00 per hour?
3. Can I claim for malicious prosecution... or anything similar?
4. Can I claim for stress caused?
5. Can I claim for their interfering with my property, ie. for touching my vehicle when they had no right to do so?
6. Ideally, I'd like to issue a counterclaim for up to £5000.00. Would this be frowned upon by a County Court judge?

1. Not much, other than a possible DPA breach. Being peed off with the claimant isn't a reason for a speculative pot-shot. You need to prove serious unreasonableness. Given your case looks little different to the thousands of others on here, I wouldn't be too hopeful of success.

2. :rotfl:

3. Hmmm. Malicious prosecution? It's a small claim, run of the mill, small claim, one of thousands of similar private parking charges coursing through the court system.

4. You could try. Do you have medical records to back this up? You'll likely need witness statements to back up your claim. Can be linked in with a DPA breach claim, as per Fruitcake's advice.

5. How much damage did they cause? Repair bills?

6. £5k will cost you £185, but if the Judge doesn't think you have a case for Britannia to answer, they will strike it out. As far as I know, your £185 disappears into court coffers, and you don't get it back!

Once my counterclaim has been issued, I fully expect Britannia to drop their claim like a hot potato. Does this mean that my counterclaim will also be negated, or will the case still proceed?

Is that based on research or wishful thinking? A counterclaim is not negated if the original claimant withdraws their own claim, in fact issuing a counterclaim more or less guarantees that the original claimant cannot avoid having to defend (unless they pay your counterclaim to avoid court).

But you do need a very solid reason to counterclaim, and in all honesty, I can't see one jumping out at me. Sorry.

JungTheForeman

Many thanks so far.

Yes, I have read through the Newbies thread extensively, but did not come across any scenario like this. As you say, it does seem to be a complete an utter scam, hence my reason for completely ignoring it so far and waiving my right to any appeal procedure. Now my hand is forced, I know that I must respond, and, as mentioned previously, I simply can't believe that Britannia have taken it this far.

A considerable amount of time has passed since the last 'debt collector' letter and the issue of the Claim Form. Possibly they hope that people will bin all evidence in the intervening time, and believe that it's all been forgotten.

No, an NTK did not follow the issue of the PCN. Thanks for this... I'll add it to the list. Regarding contacting my MP, I'd rather get as much local media involved first, hopefully outside the court on the day of the hearing.

At the moment, I'd really like to know if any counterclaim will automatically be negated if Britannia decide to drop their claim. If so, there's little point in making a counterclaim; I may as well simply defend it and then issue my own separate claim against them.

waamo

1-5 Is a no. 6 is an even bigger no. A counterclaim would be futile. You can claim your expenses back such as reasonable time and any genuine out of pocket expenses such as printing, stamps etc.

These do not require a counterclaim and can be presented when you win.

Coupon-mad

No, an NTK did not follow the issue of the PCN.

MUST have done, unless you appealed and gave them your data voluntarily?

Essentially, I want to make a counterclaim, but I really need some advice before submitting this:

1. What can I realistically claim for? Obviously, the Court fee, but anything else?

Nominal sum for trespass against goods (your car), although that is a minor point.

Damages and/or compensation for harassment and distress under the Protection from Harassment Act and also severe distress, pursuant to section 13 of the Data Protection Act, arising from their invasion of your privacy by their data controller in sending unsolicited demands relying upon a fundamental misuse of registered keeper data that they were not entitled to get from the DVLA in the first place.

2. Can I charge my own 'legal fees' for dealing with this? Possibly £250.00 per hour?
No. But there is a Litigant in Person hourly rate of £19 per hour...yes we know! BUT if you can convince the Judge that they have been 'wholly unreasonable' in their conduct of this litigation, e.g. failure to narrow the issues and set out their case at LBC stage and then other failures like late Witness statement later on, or failed to correspond or turn up to the hearing (not just having a meritless case...that's not enough to show unreasonable conduct) then you could try for, say, half the rate of a Band D fee earning trainee solicitor.

3. Can I claim for malicious prosecution or anything similar?
No, harassment and misuse of your data. And it isn't a 'prosecution'.

4. Can I claim for stress caused?
Yes as long as you evidence that, so start sending out distressed emails or social media messages about this case, to your family and colleagues and not with 'fighting talk'. With significant distress...saying you are despairing about it and have had two years of Hell, etc., lay it on thick. Then you can use those later as evidence with your Witness Statement before the hearing.

But only if they got your data from the DVLA, when they had no 'reasonable cause'.

5. Can I claim for their interfering with my property, ie. for touching my vehicle when they had no right to do so?
Trespass against the car but that's a minor nominal sum, e.g. maybe a fiver for putting sticky stuff on your windscreen you had to clean off.

6. Ideally, I'd like to issue a counterclaim for up to £5000.00. Would this be frowned upon by a County Court judge?
That would be frowned upon as frivolous. Even people who were hounded for years by debt collectors and singled out for a disability got less than half that for their troubles.

Maybe £1500 ish if you set out exactly how that breaks down.

Once my counterclaim has been issued, I fully expect Britannia to drop their claim like a hot potato. Does this mean that my counterclaim will also be negated, or will the case still proceed?
No - your counterclaim survives - and if it's not mentioned by the court when they confirm the discontinuance, then you write to the Judge and remind them and pay the hearing fee yourself (claim it back of course).


Might it be better for all affected NHS colleagues to come together and instruct a 'no-win-no-fee' company of solicitors to pursue this case on our behalf.
Maybe, if you can get one on board, but CERTAINLY NOT NOT NOT any 'appeals company' that says they also handle court claims from PPCs (Trustpilot tells you why not...or we can...just don't).

Beware of any private message offering to 'help'. If you get one, do not reply, and name and shame the poster here on this thread. Likely to be someone with an agenda, such as an appeals company, IMHO. Absolute nono.

If someone accesses your date from the DVLA without good reason in breach of the KADOE then you can claim damages without having to prove you lost money or suffered physical injury.

Did they get your data from the DVLA and write to you using that data, or did you appeal to the windscreen PCN and give them your data?

Look at Vidal-Hall v Google, and search this forum for it as that case has been used in previous counter claims.

Also look at this one:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/121.html

And here is a counter-claim that lost on pepipoo, after the PPC claim discontinued:

http://pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t110949-150.html

...and here is one that won, where I helped to write the counter-claim as SchoolRunMum, over on pepipoo:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=114450

It's a long thread. In post #284, Henry Hippo explains what he thinks clinched it, a section in his Witness Statement laying it on thick about distress. So build that picture now by emails and social media, also collect any emails you sent to the Hospital saying how unhappy/stressed this was making you.

Why the Hell did the NHS Trust not cancel these PCNs? Britannia are their agents, so the Hospital tells them what to do.

JungTheForeman

Thanks Umkomaas...

Given what I've explained so far, what evidence do you think that Britannia will be able to put before a judge? Assuming "no evidence whatsoever", wouldn't a judge be peed off with this?

The only way I can force them to produce "no evidence" is to issue a counterclaim. Why should they be able to get away with this scam, which they would do if I simply defended it?

Isn't that a solid enough reason to issue a counterclaim?

Coupon-mad

It's not a solid reason to issue a cc just to force a case to a hearing, no.

But there might be grounds to counter claim as you have evidence from the Hospital that your car was properly parked. Therefore there was misuse of data leading to severe distress.

WHY didn't the stupid Hospital cancel the PCNs that day? It was in their gift to do that!

waamo

JungTheForeman wrote: »

Thanks Umkomaas...

Given what I've explained so far, what evidence do you think that Britannia will be able to put before a judge? Assuming "no evidence whatsoever", wouldn't a judge be peed off with this?

The only way I can force them to produce "no evidence" is to issue a counterclaim. Why should they be able to get away with this scam, which they would do if I simply defended it?

Isn't that a solid enough reason to issue a counterclaim?

You simply defend it. Unless you can demonstrate some sort of harassment you are unlikely to succeed. If they have evidence they have to show it to you and the court. If they have none they might drop it.

Their evidence is likely they've asked for money and you haven't paid it. If that is it they will lose and you get your expenses. Be generous with your time at £19/hr.

If you can demonstrate harassment and distress you MAY have a case but many judges set the bar very high for this.

JungTheForeman

WHY didn't the stupid Hospital cancel the PCNs that day? It was in their gift to do that!

My thoughts exactly. A conspiracy theorist might suggest that there's some sort of kick-back going on somewhere!