BMW 5 Series F10 - BMW purchased with Recall notice

JABA

Around 18 December 2018 I purchased my 530D from an independent dealership, it was 2015 model. I part exchanged a 2011 520D for this car.

Few days later I needed to check with BMW regarding software update, and I was informed that the car had a recall on EGR Cooling, and they booking me into come on the 17.th of January. I was told if they discovered an issue they would need to keep the car for 48 hours and I would get a hire car.

I informed the dealer I purchased the car from, and he told me not to worry.

1 - 2 days before my appointment with BMW, I received an email from BMW, telling me that it was a major back log on getting the EGR Cooler parts, and could expect it to to take 3 - 4 weeks. However in this case I would be provided with a hire car.

After dropping of the car, I got a call back the next day, telling me that the EGR Cooling needed to be replaced, but they could not give me a date for this. But at least 4 weeks.

I again contacted the dealer I purchased the car from, and he told me it was not his fault, he had not been aware of this when he sold me the car.

He had however checked the cars service history with BMW.

Again after 4 weeks I contacted BMW, and they told me maybe early March they would get the parts, but they did not know yet.
Now last update, they have no idea, it can still be several months.


Ok I have been given a hire car, not the same standard as BMW, but the car is ok for now. But as my car had 3 months warranty, and I have had to pay additional insurance for the hire car to have no excess, I contacted the dealer I purchased my car from and explained him I was not happy that he had sold me a car that had a recall, and he should have been aware of this, as I believe now this was a well known issue for these BMW models. As a dealer he should have been aware of this.

I only had my car for 3 - 4 weeks when this happen. Also there was a software issue with Connected Drive, which was the original reason I brought the car to BMW in the first place.

Now my question is, what legal recourse do I have against the dealer I purchase the car from? As far as I understand, it was sold with this issue, without me being aware of this. And the car was not fit for purpose.

I have tried to reason with the seller to provide me £150 for my cost of additional insurance for the hire car, provide me a free service and extended warranty of 3 months, when I get car back from BMW, he refused all.

I am extremely disappointed for buying a car, and I have not been able to use the car. And I would like to know if I have any recourse with regards to the price / value of the car against the dealer? To have the sales price reduced. As the car has not been fit for purpose.

The matter would have been different if I had the car for more than 6 months, and / or the recall came out while the car was in my possession.

However having spoken to BMW today, they told me they sent the recalls out early November. And also using the website regit.cars I was able to check the VIN number for the recall.

So the dealer has a car, that he knows there is a recall on, I would assume its his duty to find out this, as this is his business. If he sells it, it's an offence. However if follows up on the recall, that car will me a lemon for 2 - 3 months or maybe more. So that means he has in my opinion gambled that I would not find out until it would be to late.

If the car has a safety issue when sold, it's sold with a defect, there is no way the car can be worth that price when sold, if the car is not road worthy due to safety issue, and I am told it must be taken of the road.

Consumer Right act 2015, the car fails all these :

Car is not satisfactory quality

Car is not fit for purpose

Car is not as described.

Recall letters was sent out early November, car was sold middle of December..

The dealer got his full money, instead it should be him waiting those 2 - 3 months for the car to get ready by BMW. The money I spent on the car which I don't have, I could spent on my business, or on another car that was actually fit for purpose.

So I have to disagree, as I am sure nobody would have gone to a dealer and paid full price for a second hand car, being told that you can't have for another 3 months.

As this was a known issue, it would be logical to consider this. There is also another part in this case, and that is the finance company, and the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and Section 75 under consumer credit act.

When I contacted him, they day after I was told there was a recall on my car, the response from the dealer was the following: This was before the car got tested and failed the test. It seems he was wrong.

"The recall is not a dangerous issue, just an upgrade on the EGR unit and if you don’t have an Engine Management Light on or any performance issues, you have no concerns."

If it was not a dangerous issue, I guess BMW could have just released the car while waiting for the parts.

I now want a partial refund, what are my legal options to achieve this?

Aylesbury_Duck

If he sells it, it's an offence

What offence would that be and have you called the police?

As to your "legal options", just reject the car and ask for your money back, minus a small deduction for the 3-4 weeks use you had of it of course.

You seem to be full of outrage for them selling you a dangerous and faulty car but want to keep it. That's a strange stance, don't you think?

unforeseen

You seem to be full of outrage for them selling you a dangerous and faulty car but want to keep it.

I wouldn't have thought an EGRcooler problem would be dangerous. More likely inconveniencing with a possibility of causing other engine damage.

OP can be paraphrased as

"I got carried away and overpaid so am looking for a way to get some money back"

AndyMc.....

Surely having done your due diligence you would have known about this recall and asked before handing over your money.

JABA

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

What offence would that be and have you called the police?

As to your "legal options", just reject the car and ask for your money back, minus a small deduction for the 3-4 weeks use you had of it of course.

You seem to be full of outrage for them selling you a dangerous and faulty car but want to keep it. That's a strange stance, don't you think?

Motor traders that sell cars with outstanding safety recalls are breaking the law the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) warns today, as it launches a new service designed to help people buying cars – and dealers themselves – check if cars are safe.

The regulations1 say that dealers need to get cars with outstanding recalls fixed before selling a car on to a consumer. If they don’t, they can be prosecuted by Trading Standards.

The rules apply to all commercial sales, from online sellers, authorised dealers and franchises to small, independent High Street firms.

This is from Tradingstandards website.


Apparently it can cause fire.
I am not an expert in cars, I go to a dealer so I should have various protections when I purchase such an item.

It has been reported to trading standards, for whatever that is worth.

So in your guys opinion its ok for a car dealer to sell a car that is not roadworthy, and I should wait X amount of months for it to be roadworthy?
BMW refused to release the car back to me due to safety concerns.

So it's also fair to pay the full price for a car that is not roadworthy, and will only be that maybe 3 - 4 months later?

I guess I have been applying wrong business principles then, I need to start selling faulty goods, and than take it back to repair it and tell the customer they can have it back in 3 - 4 months when it has been repaired.

JABA

unforeseen wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought an EGRcooler problem would be dangerous. More likely inconveniencing with a possibility of causing other engine damage.

OP can be paraphrased as

"I got carried away and overpaid so am looking for a way to get some money back"

What an absolute useless statement.
I would have been fine with the price if the car was safe to drive, of course knowing now that the car was sold with a fault, of course I want some money back, as it was not as described.

And just like you, the dealer at first, trivialized the problem.

Do you think BMW have made this recall on hundreds of thousands of cars in the UK, just because it's inconveniencing problem?

I don't care if you disagree with my opinions, but if you have nothing better to say than better just shut the trap.

ess0two

As the dealer wouldn't be the registered keeper? who gets the recall notice?
The next person who registers the car?

AJGuy

If you believe that BMW has broken the law then a call to your local trading standards should be your first step.

Personally I would reject the car and like others have said you will receive a full refund minus the 4 weeks you have used the car.

The dealership should have protections in place, all software updates and recalls should be checked against the dealerships computers using a VIN number. Did you run any checks on the car whilst purchasing? If not don’t worry, the dealership has to disclose if the vehicle has pending recalls, been stolen/used as a hire car etc and it thier responsibility to do these checks.

As for the recall... it was issued in October, you bought the car in December and it annoys me that another poster has question if it’s a dangerous fault. A recall by definition is when a manufacturer finds a serious safety defect and needs urgently repaired. Your EGR cooler has been recalled as it can leak glycol into the engine bay causing a fire in extreme circumstances, remember the Vauxhall Zafria’s burning down a McDonald’s. This recall has hit BMW hard with over 1.5 million vehicles affected worldwide, I find it hard that the dealer missed this by accident. Ring the DVSA and find out exactly when the recall was placed against your vin, this well help prove that the car was sold to you without all the relevant checks and disclosures. If the car was bought on finance then you have even more protection as the they are also partially responsible however I’m sure the finance company also run these checks so the fact that not a single recall was brought up during the sale suggests something fishy was going on or the recall had not been issued for your VIN until later.

Please seriously consider rejecting the car... at the end of the day, it’s just a car.

neilmcl

JABA wrote: »

Motor traders that sell cars with outstanding safety recalls are breaking the law the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) warns today, as it launches a new service designed to help people buying cars – and dealers themselves – check if cars are safe.

And have you? Have you actually checked that this is classed as an official safety recall by the DVSA?

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-recall

AndyMc.....

AJGuy wrote: »

If you believe that BMW has broken the law then a call to your local trading standards should be your first step.

Personally I would reject the car and like others have said you will receive a full refund minus the 4 weeks you have used the car.

The dealership should have protections in place, all software updates and recalls should be checked against the dealerships computers using a VIN number. Did you run any checks on the car whilst purchasing? If not don’t worry, the dealership has to disclose if the vehicle has pending recalls, been stolen/used as a hire car etc and it thier responsibility to do these checks.

As for the recall... it was issued in October, you bought the car in December and it annoys me that another poster has question if it’s a dangerous fault. A recall by definition is when a manufacturer finds a serious safety defect and needs urgently repaired. Your EGR cooler has been recalled as it can leak glycol into the engine bay causing a fire in extreme circumstances, remember the Vauxhall Zafria’s burning down a McDonald’s. This recall has hit BMW hard with over 1.5 million vehicles affected worldwide, I find it hard that the dealer missed this by accident. Ring the DVSA and find out exactly when the recall was placed against your vin, this well help prove that the car was sold to you without all the relevant checks and disclosures. If the car was bought on finance then you have even more protection as the they are also partially responsible however I’m sure the finance company also run these checks so the fact that not a single recall was brought up during the sale suggests something fishy was going on or the recall had not been issued for your VIN until later.

Please seriously consider rejecting the car... at the end of the day, it’s just a car.

You do know the public can't ring Trading Standards? Contact is via the CAB.

JABA

AndyMc..... wrote: »

You do know the public can't ring Trading Standards? Contact is via the CAB.

That's already been done. And CAB have already reported it to Tradingstandards.

The dealer does not want to take responsibility, I contacted him first time 4 days after I got the car, and he refuted all as a minor issue with no major concerns.
It took 1 month to get the car checked, as BMW was fully booked.

The dealer had access to BMW service history data etc., so I am sure they had access to all.

It was not on the DVSA website when I purchased the car, however it does show now.
But I did find it later with VIN check, and it was already notified on BMW's records.
The dealer had worked 20 years for BMW, and trough various email exchanges implied they had checked car trough BMW's own data.

That would have confirmed the car had a recall.