Newcastle Airport UKPPO BW Legal collective defence group

grimnog

The particulars of claim I received don’t mention breach of contract - it says it’s for a PCN in relation to a parking contravention

Caoimhe

I wonder if the fact that a PCN can be issued at their discretion would mean that this is an alternative to prosecution at their discretionand therefore not something that is enforcable through a court?

BrownTrout

Your over thinking this......

Caoimhe

I am thinking about this*

Coupon-mad

OK so as you have to all have done your AOS by now/tomorrow, is anyone (either those now doing the AOS for the first time, or any others) willing to try the contesting jurisdiction route?

If not, or if some of you wish to defend at a hearing, let's get back to looking at your defence. Post it in a reply please so it's in the most current posts on this page.

darb

Hello everyone,

I am in the same position with an issue date of the 15th Feb for a contravention which occurred 30/05/2016.

In summary, stopped outside of the car park at Newcastle airport in front of a hotel car park entrance for about 10 seconds then reversed round a corner and drove back out of the airport.

Key points that seem to be the same across all cases:

• The car never entered a car park.
• The PCN and following letters from UKPP all reference the Newcastle airport Bylaws.
“The reason we issued a PCN to the vehicle is as follows: 6.3 Parking in Prohibited Area.”
• From the court claim form: “…. The claimant also claims £60.00 contractual costs as set out in the Terms and Conditions”.

The extract below is taken from a reply to a direct appeal with UKPP that I made in 2016:

“Due to the notice being issued under the airport byelaws the POFA is not applicable and the registered keeper is held liable for the charge.

Therefore the driver breached airport byelaw 6.3; Wait in, leave or park a vehicle where waiting or parking!is prohibited by notice.”

Prior to finding this thread my course of action was to defend this on the grounds that the contract was never made with UKPP - inadequate signs that if you are to stop and read them ironically break the “contract” they make … More importantly once you do stop anywhere displaying the contract with UKPP you have no option to decline the offer. Also in my case they claimed the reverse round the corner (the only way out of driving into their car park and accepting the contract) was a “dangerous manoeuvre” but its worth noting that if this was dangerous it would be covered by Newcastle airport bylaw 6.1 and not subject to a PCN

I’ve already drafted this defence and its ready to send (will upload here if requested). I’m confident in this defence to the PCN. I have already sent off the AOS so have the extra 14 days so at the moment I’m in no rush.

From reading this thread and also my own letters it seems as though UKPP are using the airport bylaws to give more weight to their PCN allowing them bypass standard procedure under the threat of magistrate’s court. (?)

Looking at the 2009 Newcastle airport bylaw it does clearly state that a PCN can be issued for:

6.3 Parking in Prohibited Areas

Wait in, leave or park a vehicle where waiting or parking is prohibited by notice.

However, it is also worth noting that a PCN can’t be issued for:

6.9 Observe Signs
Without reasonable excuse either when on foot or whilst using, driving or propelling a vehicle, neglect, fail or refuse to comply with an indication or direction given by:
6.91 a traffic or pedestrian sign erected and displayed by or with the consent of the Company placed on or near a private Airport road;
6.9.2 any road marking on such a road; or
6.9.3 an Airport Official or Constable for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic or pedestrians

I am going to contest the jurisdiction but I think it’s a bit of a toss up as to if it will work as the only thing I have to go off is the back of the PCN letter sent by UKPP - see text below and it goes against what is in the Newcastle airport bylaws. But I don't see any negative from trying it:

Legal Issue
UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd have been authorised to enforce the Newcastle International Airport
Byelaws 2009 and issue parking charge notices as an alternative to prosecution. Unlike a parking
charge notice issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act, under Byelaw 3.3.1 the registered keeper
is immediately held liable for the sum due.

What they are offering is an alternative to prosecution would imply by definition that the case would be heard at a magistrate’s court. Do people agree with this?

I rang the county court business centre to check to see if I could still contest jurisdiction but they seemed unsure and was told that if I did, it would cost £155.00 and they also couldn’t answer the question “If contesting jurisdiction failed would I lose by default or would I still get to defend it?”

So I did a bit of googling and found the info below:

Guidance of contesting jurisdiction (link and extract below) I don’t think I should be charged anyway?

(2) A defendant who wishes to make such an application must first file an acknowledgment of service in accordance with Part 10.
(3) A defendant who files an acknowledgment of service does not, by doing so, lose any right that he may have to dispute the court’s jurisdiction.
(4) An application under this rule must –
(a) be made within 14 days after filing an acknowledgment of service; and
(b) be supported by evidence.


justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11#11.1

In summary I'm planning to contest the jurasdiction as I think its reasonable and worst case it gets denied leaving me in the same position I am now. (I would be grateful for someones else's view on this though)

This is a bit of a ramble but I hope it adds to the discussion.

grimnog

Coupon-mad - at least one of us is going to contest jurisdiction - we have all contributed to the fee to minimise his individual risk exposure. There is a possibility one or two more might also do so off their own back. The rest of us will be defending, and if the jurisdiction contention works before we reach our hearings, we will use it to argue no cause of action too.

Coupon-mad

What they are offering is an alternative to prosecution would imply by definition that the case would be heard at a magistrate’s court. Do people agree with this?

No, an alternative to prosecution suggests not Mags Court, but small claims.

Yet they have slipped up by not describing the charge as a contractual one, so it seems to be a circular argument that they should have called it a penalty and brought the case under the byelaws, and that time has long gone - they can't have it both ways.

Have you done your AOS yet then? Did you tick the 'intend to defend' box?

If any of you have not yet pm'd each other to join the WhatsApp group, please pm the thread starter now.

If any of you have NOT yet done your AOS, you have until tomorrow daytime, and I would not hang about, make a decision tonight. Your AOS must be done in time, then you can all spend a week or so getting the defence or N244 application right!

If someone contests jurisdiction, you are pushing the case forward to be seen earlier by a Judge (and it costs £100 for the application, without a hearing). The DJ will look at your application and evidence - which must include the byelaws (and we already have wording posted earlier, for para 10 of the form) and the DJ will give Directions.

Either they will agree to your application and strike the claim out - and that's why you include a Draft Order hoping they will also order your £100 to be refunded by the Claimant, or they might set up a preliminary hearing to hear the matter of byelaws/jurisdiction from both parties.

Or they might reject your application and issue Directions for both parties, for you to defend, AIUI.

If I have that wrong, as I am not legally qualified, baregpole, Johnersh or LoadsofChildren123 please put me right. I can't believe exercising an option to contest jurisdiction first, leaves you with no directions to proceed on a 'defending' basis, if the DJ disagrees with the application?

Ballantyne78

Evening all. You'll be pleased to know that my AOS has been submitted, stating that I intend to contest jurisdiction.
Now, if anybody can offer any help, advice or direction regards how I need to present the next step, I'd love to hear it.
Problematically, I have NONE of the paperwork from UKPPO or BW Legal (lost in house move) so I am completely blind in this. I will be putting in a SAR asap but don't have the original PCN notice and can't see this on the court paperwork.
Now, how do we win this and stick it to UKPPO?

Coupon-mad

Use a scan of your court claim and/or your V5C log book as your ID, and do the SAR right now by email to UKPPO's DPO (NOT TO BW LEGAL). Use the Legal Beagles template and get that emailed as it will help you in the end, if the Judge orders a preliminary or full hearing after all.

The wording for para 10 of your N244 is in an earlier post on this thread, by BountyHunter.

Here is an example of a N244 that bargepole drew up for VCS, if this link works:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/75ibgx3xwxj3a5n/example%20Application%20to%20Contest%20Jurisdiction.pdf?dl=0&m=

You'd need to change VCS to UKPPO and add your own personal details and claim number (don't leave it as shown...!) and sign & date it, and replace the point #10 with the version posted on this thread.

And attach a copy of the Newcastle Airport Byelaws and a (redacted name & address) copy of the rejection letter one of you has, that states that these charges were issued 'under byelaws' and are not contractual breach charges. You should all use that letter, for all your cases, IMHO, even though it relates to just one case, it's standard to this Claimant.

And the 'Draft Order' that bargepole wrote, that I posted here earlier.

And the £100 fee.

Read the N244 guidance notes! Found online, as is the form itself.