Newcastle Airport UKPPO BW Legal collective defence group

BrownTrout

I also think the application fee in this case would be £100 be i could be wrong and will get that checked

Coupon-mad

BWL1984 wrote: »

Hi Bounty

I'm in the same boat. Any chance I can join WhatsApp group?

Have you yet done your AOS? You are close to being late if not. BUt maybe it is best to tick that you intend to contest jurisdiction, and I wonder if the others can send an 'erratum notice' to the CCBC to change the AOS tick box, stating in fact they now intend to contest jurisdiction.

Just thinking out loud. We've never done that before.

What do the collective group think, bearing in mind the £255 (or possibly £100) fee - unless some of you qualify for help/waiving of court fees?

Castle

Do the particulars of claim, (POC) actually mention breach of Byelaws?

twhitehousescat

they should reflect the ticket and NTK

BountyHunter

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Have you yet done your AOS? You are close to being late if not. BUt maybe it is best to tick that you intend to contest jurisdiction, and I wonder if the others can send an 'erratum notice' to the CCBC to change the AOS tick box, stating in fact they now intend to contest jurisdiction.

Just thinking out loud. We've never done that before.

What do the collective group think, bearing in mind the £255 (or possibly £100) fee - unless some of you qualify for help/waiving of court fees?

That's a pretty expensive gamble as none of us are experts -I think it will put off the majority who will proceed to use the byelaws as the 1st argument in the defence as originally planned.

Coupon-mad

If you want to complete N244 applications you must do so within 14 days of AOS.

Here is a template (below) that bargepole drafted for VCS cases.

A UKPPO amended version of the words below go into this box on the N244 form, one for each of you (£100 fee, not £255, I now think, as no hearing is applied for):

10. What information will you be relying on, in support of your application?
the evidence set out in the box below

Obviously in your cases, change it to the Newcastle Airport Byelaws and also cite the fact that the PCN and rejection of appeal letters, stated that the charge was not issued under breach of contract but 'under byelaws' (despite the Particulars of Claim now trying to twist it into a matter of breach of contract, which must be an abuse of process):

1. The material location to which this claim relates, is John Lennon Airport, Liverpool.

2. On 17 June 1982, Merseyside County Council enacted bylaws relating to this location, a copy of which are appended to this notice. The bylaws came into effect on 1 July 1982, and have never been revoked. Section 5 (iii) (a) of the bylaws sets out the conditions for driving and parking vehicles within the airport, and Section 12 describes the penalty upon conviction for any breach of the bylaws.

3. Any breach of the parking restrictions, as alleged by the Claimant in this action, is, therefore, a breach of the bylaws, and must be treated as a criminal offence, which cannot be the subject of a civil claim.

4. The correct jurisdiction for this matter is, therefore, the Magistrates' Court, and not the County Court. Any prosecution arising from the facts of this case can only be brought by Liverpool City Council, who in 1986 assumed the functions of the now defunct Merseyside County Council.

The above came from bargepole a while back, and he is legally qualified. He posts here.

If you'd rather defend then you are deemed to be accepting the jurisdiction of the county court. At the time, with the VCS claims, bargepole felt that was a bad idea as small claims cases are dependant on Judge's opinion - you could get different outcomes.

As has happened in VCS cases...sadly. Some lost, some won, but some dodgy considerations of what should ONLY be a matter for Mags court within 6 months.

Think hard, I favour the £100 N244 routes, and ask the District Judge to order that the fee cost be borne/refunded by the Claimant!

BountyHunter

Castle wrote: »

Do the particulars of claim, (POC) actually mention breach of Byelaws?

Not on the POC but it's on the PCN. Not sure about everyone but mine states "Parking Charge Notice for a parking contravention" on the POC.

BrownTrout

No i don't think it's a gamble and the fee is £100 , since it won't require a hearing and this is the right way to go with byelaws if that's what they are claiming your have breached

The county court has no jurisdiction in a bye law claim (if you challenge it).....

Coupon-mad

I'd do the £100 applications, very quickly, tomorrow, all of you.

If you all agree, show us your draft wording based on bargepole's template.

Maybe some of you will disagree and want to chance small claims defences, in which case you could branch into two groups? One lot defending, one lot contesting jurisdiction and asking for an order for your £100 back from the rogue Claimant.

Urgent conflab needed!

In favour of contesting jurisdiction = me, Brown Trout (and bargepole I'd expect).

Edna_Basher

There's another subtle difference between VCS airport cases and those concerning UKPPO at Newcastle Airport.

Whilst VCS deny the relevance of airport byelaws and claim their signs form a contract with the driver, UKPPO's signs at Newcastle Airport specifically refer to the Newcastle International Airport Byelaws 2009 and are clear in stating that UK Parking Patrol Office Limited has been authorised by Newcastle International Airport Limited to enforce those byelaws.

Here's a link to a picture of one of the signs.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/142532723@N08/28258538212/in/dateposted/

This other sign also confirms the byelaws and warns of a £60 fixed penalty for making a U-turn.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/142532723@N08/28328613096/in/photostream/

The pictures dates back to June 2016 but the signs were still in place in August 2017 (the last time I used the airport).