Changing light - no live at ceiling rose

icypear

Hi all,
sorry for whats a simple questions probably.
I opened the current ceiling rose ready to change to new light fitting and noticed it no live wires going into the loop terminals. Should I be concerned about this as im not sure how I should wire the current wires to the new light.

Also, I notice the switched live hasnt been marked, but im guessing its the black wire in the line terminal, would I be right?

Thanks for any advice.

Please see the picture at (sorry im not allowed to post links yet):
imgur.com/26LEeSe

DCFC79

icypear wrote: »

Hi all,
sorry for whats a simple questions probably.
I opened the current ceiling rose ready to change to new light fitting and noticed it no live wires going into the loop terminals. Should I be concerned about this as im not sure how I should wire the current wires to the new light.

Also, I notice the switched live hasnt been marked, but im guessing its the black wire in the line terminal, would I be right?

Thanks for any advice.

Please see the picture at (sorry im not allowed to post links yet):
imgur.com/26LEeSe

Link


If your not sure get an expert in.

chunkytfg

Is it currently working? If it is then just wire the new one up the same way?

What's happening with the red wires behind the rose? I assume they are looped together somehow?

EachPenny

icypear wrote: »

Also, I notice the switched live hasnt been marked, but im guessing its the black wire in the line terminal, would I be right?

Guessing with electrics is dangerous, and not possible to confirm what is what just by a picture.

As chunkytfg points out, there are red wires behind the rose, it looks like a bodge job.

It also appears there are only two wires in the earth terminal... why not three?

And the rose is only attached to the ceiling by one screw.

You need a professional to sort out what is going on. (and possibly check elsewhere in the house for similar nasties).

keith969

Whoever did the original wiring didn't have a clue. I'd be worried about the rest of your wiring too.

icypear

Thanks for the replies. Its currently working fine and has been since we moved in 3 yeara ago, at that time we had a niceic electrician change all the wall switches and sockets for chrome ones, no mention was made to the wiring having any issues but he didnt touch any of the ceiling roses.


I can see some red wires behind the rose so possibly they are joined there instead of at the rose, I still dont get why the switch live which is possibly the black one is in black.


I could wire up the new light the same way but am a little worried now after the comments!

EachPenny

icypear wrote: »

I can see some red wires behind the rose so possibly they are joined there instead of at the rose, I still dont get why the switch live which is possibly the black one is in black.

A common way of wiring a light and switch together is to run a length of T&E cable between them. The red (or brown) is wired to the 'loop' terminal and supplies power to the switch. The black (or blue) conductor is then used to return the switched-live from the switch back to the ceiling rose. However, when used that way the black (or blue) conductor used as a switched-live should have a red (or brown) sleeving over it to show what it is being used for.

Since none of your wires has red (or brown) sleeving then it is a total guess which one does what. Your assumption about which one is switched-live is based on it being connected to the 'Line' terminal in the rose. But what if the person who did the wiring was an incompetent and had connected the switched-live to the 'N' terminal.... perhaps because the wire was too short to reach the one marked 'Line'?

Given the overall quality of the job it is unsafe to assume anything about that wiring.

icypear wrote: »

I could wire up the new light the same way but am a little worried now after the comments!

You don't need to panic, but you are right to be worried. It needs to be checked and sorted out by a professional. That should include checking that the earthing is all correct, especially as you've had metal fittings installed already.

Le_Kirk

Do you have a multi-meter or similar tester? Are you confident & competent? If so, check between the cables marked Line & N (Neutral) and, with the light switched on, you should get 230/240 volts as a reading. Then check between the one marked Line and the Earth point in the ceiling rose. If you get 230/240 volts, the Line is indeed the Line (or live). If you do not get 230/240 volts try between the N (Neutral) and Earth. If you get 230/240 volts then it is wired the wrong way round.

unforeseen

From that picture it looks like the lighting ring is through the switches rather than the light fittings. I have that arrangement in my house, built in the mid 70s

molerat

unforeseen wrote: »

From that picture it looks like the lighting ring is through the switches rather than the light fittings. I have that arrangement in my house, built in the mid 70s

Too many wires for that, usually only a single TWE going to the fitting. It looks quite straightforward with the loop through line and drop to the switch for some reason connected with a chocolate block behind the fitting rather than the provided connector.

knightstyle

Nothing much wrong with what is in the pic. It could be there is a junction box somewhere in the ceiling. Yes the black wire should be marked with a red sleeve. Just put the new fitting up using the same connections and mark the black wire if you like, red nail varnish is a cheap easy way.