PCN from Parking Eye for hospital visit

noiseboy23

Hello, I hope somebody may be able to help me with an issue I have with ParkingEye.

I recently had to attend Llandough hospital in Cardiff for a pre-op assessment for a forthcoming procedure I need. I arrived on site 25 minutes before my appointment time, but could not find any spaces for visitors/patients. I drove around for 50 minutes looking for a space but was unsuccessful.
25 minutes after my appointment time, I decided to park in one of the many empty spaces within a staff only car park. I was in here for under 3o minutes, and within a week a PCN was through my door.
I'm not disputing that I parked in the wrong area (there is a lovely photo of my car entering and exiting said area), its more the fact that there not being enough visitors spaces, are we supposed to miss our appointments (costing the NHS £160) or have to face a fine.

I contacted the PALS dept of the hospital who told me to complain to the car parking office of the health board. They didn't help at all and just said to appeal to ParkingEye.
The receptionist at the dept I was seeing said there have been loads of complaints about this, but it was out of their hands.
What are my options here?

TIA

Redx

3 jobs for you to do

make another complaint to PALS and the trust and cite these principles which they should adhere to and they cannot , repeat , CANNOT just wash their hands of it

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

also read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread at the top of this forum and lodge an appeal as KEEPER on the PE website, using the blue text template (unchanged) BEFORE the 28 day deadline to appeal has expired


complain by email to your local MP, mentioning the bill by Sir Greg Knight


https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html

MistyZ

As above - I would be very forceful with PALS. There are compelling mitigating circumstances here that the PPC / POPLA will take no notice of but with PALS you can lay it all on the line in glorious technicolour. To be clear, the hospital were responsible for your late arrival at the appointment. You did everything you could to avoid that but it was not possible. Late appointments cause inconvenience and added expense to the NHS as do missed ones, and we pay for the NHS. Frankly, you did well to turn up at all.

Now, on top of the stress of a forthcoming procedure, you have the prospect of a large penalty charge or up to 6 years of harassment by debt collectors etc. followed by court proceedings. What do PALS not understand? They can cancel this thing and you must insist that they do so.

Fight it if you have to, the worst case scenario outlined above is not a given by any means. You may well win and will get the support here that you require. But in addition to your first appeal to P.E. get back to PALS with all flags flying straight away.

Guys_Dad

The problem at most hospitals is insufficient parking spaces. We have the case of a number of nurses at one hospital incurring thousands of pounds charges imposed by court.

I disagree with MistyZ above. If there is insufficient parking available and no land or money to expand, then it is not their fault. You should have established just what the parking position was before you decided to drive. (I checked with Bedford hospital two weeks ago when I had to go there and decided to park and ride).

If the hospital won't help or PALS, then on all evidence I have seen on here, you will lose. After all, the argument would be, is you have taken a parking space from a member of staff who may have been prevented from getting to an operating theatre to save someone's life. Worse, on the face of it, than parking in a disabled parking bay.

I may appear unsympathetic, but rather that lead you up a garden poath that is almost certain to end in disappointment, it is better to put the rose tinted specs away.

MistyZ

No rose tinted specs, Guys Dad, but try like hell, that's my advice. Patients may turn up for an appointment having thoroughly researched the parking situation, they may just do that. Alternatively, they may be rather more focused on the difficult enough reality of a challenging appointment. The PPCs exploit any opportunity to make money and this is one such opportunity. Perhaps I should have said that this is the PPC's fault, aided and abetted by the hospital.

I absolutely sympathise with lack of money / land to expand. I also applaud cancellation of PCNs received by patients as a result of these difficulties which are not of their making. Are you saying the OP shouldn't demand a cancellation? How could that be justified? They say they drove around for 50 minutes and were late for their appointment as a result. Did they not do their best in the circumstances to make up for the car park's shortcomings? One has to have previously attended a hospital at least once to know these things, who's to say that applies to the OP?

As for the nurses and other members of staff, yep, that's more difficult to argue. They must be able to park. Very uncompromising notices and markings / physical boundaries may be required. But if they do need to park elsewhere they should not get PCNs, that's for sure.

Coupon-mad

I'm not disputing that I parked in the wrong area (there is a lovely photo of my car entering and exiting said area), its more the fact that there not being enough visitors spaces, are we supposed to miss our appointments (costing the NHS £160) or have to face a fine.

Cover your number-plate next time. Not joking; everyone should do that. On street you have to show your plate but not when driving past a scam camera inside a car park.

If people didn't show your number-plates on private land, then ANPR PCNs couldn't be issued, at all.

Umkomaas

@OP - does the letter you've received from PE mention parking in a staff parking area? In 99% of cases PE rely exclusively on ANPR cameras which are ordinarily sited at the entrance/exit points of the whole site and cannot monitor where people park - in which case your PCN is more likely to be an overstay or a failure to enter (correctly) your VRM.

Does your NtK attempt to hold the registered keeper liable by having a paragraph about the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which commences 'You are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of Schedule 4 ..... '. And a further paragraph which commences 'You are warned that if, after 29 days from the date given ....'? It's usually on the reverse of the NtK.

make another complaint to PALS and the trust and cite these principles which they should adhere to and they cannot , repeat , CANNOT just wash their hands of it

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

I'm not sure whether these Guidelines apply in Wales. There is a different and separate relationship between the Welsh Government and the NHS in Wales (eg the WG have banned parking charges - and now every man and his dog use the car parks to go shopping, or go to work, foisting even greater parking chaos on patients and staff). By all means cite the Guidelines, but be prepared for a knock back.

Guys_Dad

MistyZ wrote: »

No rose tinted specs, Guys Dad, but try like hell, that's my advice. Patients may turn up for an appointment having thoroughly researched the parking situation, they may just do that.

As for the nurses and other members of staff, yep, that's more difficult to argue. They must be able to park. Very uncompromising notices and markings / physical boundaries may be required. But if they do need to park elsewhere they should not get PCNs, that's for sure.

When you write "To be clear, the hospital were responsible for your late arrival at the appointment. You did everything you could to avoid that but it was not possible. Late appointments cause inconvenience and added expense to the NHS as do missed ones, and we pay for the NHS. Frankly, you did well to turn up at all." you are going over the top and absolving OP of any blame for pinching a staff member's parking space. It is incumbent on people to do "risk assessments" when deciding to drive to hospitals. Surely everyone must be aware of the much publicised shortage of parking?

I am NOT saying that OP should not try every appeal avenue. They should. But if it got to court, as other hospital parking cases have, to use your claim that it is the hospital's fault would ensure a loss.

GlynDwr

Parking in Llandough Hospital is terrible and I have experienced the same driving around to try to find a space. Did you park in the multistory? It would be very easy to go into the area marked for patients and visitors , and decend a level and not knowing that area was for Staff. With ANPR how do they know where you parked? Complain!

The_Deep

PE have no place in Hospital car parks imo. They are scammers in an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Hopefully, this will become law by Easter .