Default Removal - Strategy

spadoosh

DefaultRemoval101 wrote: »

Okay, so by way of an update:

American express applied the default on the 16th October.

Through searching my emails, I agreed a payment date with the collections department of the debt collection agency of the 13th of October.

Now I have emails from the 6th October and phone records (having spoken to AIC who were the debt collectors) - that confirm I requested the payment be made on the 17th as I wasn't sure I'd be paid on the 13th. All I was advised was that the DD may not cancel, but payment on the 17th would be acceptable. (This payment was made and I asked it to be the 17th due to not being 100% if I'd be paid the 13th Friday or the Monday 16th).

Now, having reviewed my old online bank statements, AIC tried to take the direct debit from my account on the 11th of October - 2 days before the agreed date.... Interestingly, my salary was paid on the 13th so any direct debit that would have been scheduled for that day WOULD have been successful.

Having contacted AIC - they told me that after the DD was unsuccessful, they reported to AMEX that I hadn't paid. At this point then, AMEX registered a default, even though payment was received on the 17th and would have been received on the 13th if AIC had correctly taken the DD from my account.

So.... now, do people think I have a strong case? I have contacted American express and they have requested these documents, which I will be sending through shortly.

Thanks for any response.

No.

If its gone to debt collectors, its gone past the default stage and you wouldve been given the opportunity to pay before that.

The default stage is the lenders, in this case AMEX, last attempt to get money from you before putting the account in to default (failure to fulfil obligations) from then they typically send it off to debt collectors.

Either way, you didnt pay a credit card debt from february to october or near enough those times. You definitely defaulted by doing that (failure to fulfil your obligations) although it sounds like they have held off applying said default in order to give you the most amount of opportunity to make payment and avoid it. This is nice of a lender to do.

It basically sounds like theyve given you every opportunity to pay and not be penalised but it ultimately had to go to debt collectors for you to pay at which point a default will always have been issued. Theyre not going to go to debt collectors without issuing a default. Default is threat 1 to pay. Debt collectors are threat 2.

DefaultRemoval101

This isn't what I'm hearing from American Express.

I appreciate the comments, but think people are being a little quick to jump on the kicking and screaming bandwagon....

sambaird

I highly doubt you will be successful in your endeavor here - no matter how high up in the company you talk to. However, you are well within your rights to at least try.

Your success with Orange is not relevant to the situation you have with Amex. A £3 default being removed is not remotely in the same league as removing a Credit Card default.

Imagine the precedent that would be set if Amex magically agreed to what you are saying...it would be the equivalent of allowing people to go without paying their bills for upwards of 8 months without consequence.

That said - I wish you luck... if you are successful, I would recommend posting the letter that you get from Amex confirming the removal of the default so we can admire your success. I'll then be able to point to the precedent when I attempt to get the 13 remaining defaults I still have on my file from 5 years ago.

spadoosh

DefaultRemoval101 wrote: »

This isn't what I'm hearing from American Express.

I appreciate the comments, but think people are being a little quick to jump on the kicking and screaming bandwagon....

Nothing that im aware of that would warrant me kicking and screaming. I did when i had a default though, most people do.

Im highlighting the process which you know right?

To be issued with a default they have to send you out a letter saying youre going to get a default you have xx (cant remember how long) amount of days to prevent this from happening. When you dont do that they tend to sell your debt to a debt collection agency.

It would be rare for them to pass on the debt without at least trying to get you to pay before it costs them more money. Why would they be willing to sacrifice some of the money they are owed by using a DCA who will want their cut when they havent used all the cheaper options open to them first?

So you almost certainly wouldve been told you where going to get a default before they sold it to the DCA. Once its gone to the DCA it has done so because your account is in default. Youre arguing about the time that it was applied and whilst you can for accuracy sake it doesnt have any baring on the validity of the default being applied.

DefaultRemoval101

Thanks for your response. I think this is the kind of response I expected - your honest, not mean, just honest. Whilst I think it's a long shot and agree with your statement of 'not paying for 8 months and then having it removed' is fair.... I actually think things have turned in my favor, on account of the point I highlighted regarding time frames.

I don't doubt that Amex were nice in allowing me to pay as late as I did - of that there is no dispute, but they can't retroactively say 'well we'll make the default stand even though there was a mistake' simply because they COULD have issued it earlier.

My point is that I tried to change the date I would make the payment and that I'd have the funds available on the 13th - I have ample evidence supporting this. I asked a full 50 days in advance to have this as first payment date and the amount not leaving on that day, (As the DCA didn't apply the change correctly) - has resulted in the default.

Ignore the fact it wasn't paid for ages - I lost my job etc and whilst I probably could have managed it better I didn't bury my head.... My point is a technicality - which has been agreed by an AMEX rep and the DCA rep - if the payment had gone through on the 13th.... I wouldn't have a default.... That's a fact that cannot be ignored.... So my production of evidence that told them 50 days in advance that I would need payment for 13th - I personally believe is quite a strong case....

Likewise, I understand your comment regarding 'doesn't matter how high you go' - however, I genuinely disagree as I've had my email from the highest person at AMEX stating they will personally watch over this and my complaint is being handled incredibly quickly with a resolution expected on Tuesday - 5 working days later...

I am hopeful, but if nothing else, I gave it a shot. Will see what happens I guess, but thank you for your response.

DefaultRemoval101

I don't disagree that this is the likely usual procedure, however in this case I think it's been handled differently.

My account defaulted because the first payment wasn't taken from AIC - now I know they are an external but my account wasn't defaulted in August when it was passed to them - I've had that clarified.

I've also had AMEX clarify that the default was registered because the payment wasn't made on the 13th.... With that in mind.... I think I have a reasonable case.

spadoosh

So the debt hasnt been sold to the debt collection agency? And theyre just acting on behalf of AMEX at this stage?

If its been sold it has to have had a default applied. So any talk of pay by that date to avoid default with the DCA would be nonsense as it would already be applied.

If they are acting on behalf of AMEX they dont have to apply the default until whenever they decide they will. All be it following the correct process of informing you of the debt and offering so many days to settle (by letter!). This letter is the key here. If the date on this letter is for payment before whichever date it was in Oct then youre on thin ground.

I see the point with agreed dates and providing theres nothing that takes precedent (the letter) and you can provide evidence of the agreement made (they really should be sending letters out for this stuff, you too so you have a record) youll have more of a case for getting it removed.

sambaird

Personally, I think you may be conflating things that may have been said to you.

I have never heard of a debt-collection agency working with Non-Defaulted Debts.
So at the stage the debt collection agency became involved, the account WAS in default with Amex.

You yourself state that Amex issued a default notice in July (which you claim you didn't receive).
Whether you did or you didn't isn't the issue. As you didnt pay within the 14 days of that letter being sent, the account was in default from this point.

I think the best outcome you can hope for is that the default is moved from October to August (which is when the Amex account actually defaulted according to your timeline).

DefaultRemoval101

Yeah I don't know the status of if the debt was sold etc - I fully understand everyones points, but a rep from AMEX and AIC have both told me that had the payment been made on the 13th, the account would not have defaulted, hence my statements regarding funds being available and obviously an email chain.

I'm sure having letters would be very helpful and would probably make this smoother, however AIC have no record of letters being sent out to me regarding the whole 'pay by this date etc' and I have nothing on record to indicate that I was told I'd go in to default should it not be paid by the 13th.

I'm basically replying on them admitting fault. With respect to if it was sold.... there was no interest applied and by all accounts it looks like it was AIC who were instructed to recover the balance on behalf of American Express.

My initial email with them states that I am dealing with AIC in respect of a matter involving American Express. Not sure if that changes anything, but my guess is the debt wasn't sold. At the point I agreed to make a payment on the 13th (this was in August) when my account was a maximum 5 months late - most of the time in which I'd been in contact to AMEX and they were aware of my financial situation etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's appreciated.

DefaultRemoval101

So I think I probably haven't been clear, but heres what I know:

June 29th: A letter was sent to me telling me my card was cancelled (I have rightly, or wrongly assumed this was a default summons).
August 4th 2016: Allied contacted me and we agreed a repayment plan.
August 30th 2016: I contacted Allied telling them I couldn't make payment on 10th as my salary was paid on the 13th. Some conversations were had and emails confirm I asked this and made it clear. I also have in email Allied stating the DD may still come out but to make a manual payment afterwards.
October 11th: Allied attempts to take DD and it is returned.
October 13th: I am paid and no attempt is made by Allied to take funds from my account to clear balance.
October 16th: Allied instruct American Express that I did not make the agreed payment.
October 16th: American Express file a default on my credit file.
October 17th: Payment is made in line with the emails I had sent, stating this was my preferred payment date (This was sent on 30th August).

So basically, it looks as though the account had NOT defaulted when it was with Allied - I have all the evidence to suggest it wasn't, however I fully accept that if a debt is sold - it would have been done so when account was in default, so perhaps you are correct and actually I will just have default date put forward.... However, if they cannot retroactively apply different criteria to the circumstances now than they did then.... they gave me till the 13th and I could have paid on the 13th, the fact that Allied did not correctly take payment is neither here nor there.

It's a long shot, but I appreciate the reply. Have a good weekend!