International payment for goods

youngretired

Hello I wonder if anyone can give us some advise, my husband made a purchase online for an item from a German company.

He had to pay via his bank as the company didn't accept card payments. He sent a payment of 226.20 euros via his BOS account. He was not aware of the SEPA T&C's which doesn't allow you to pay the recipients bank fees or that the company would even be charged any fees.

He chased the company and they have said that they were charged 17.85 euros fee and until he pays the outstanding balance then the goods will not be dispatched.

He has asked the company (as directed by BOS) to advise him of any fees that will be charged for sending the remaining 17.85, so he can add this onto the balance therefore clearing it totally. As of yet he hasn't heard back.

I have read about Transferwise, but it would appear that a lot of people use this to send funds to themselves or family, not for a purchase. Also it is not clear to if the recipient would still receive fees.

colsten

With a Transferwise Borderless account, you can send money to any bank account, not just to your own. They will tell you the exact amount the recipient gets.

dj1471

I'd say any fees charged by their bank are their problem. Assuming your husband is a consumer and not buying for any business-related reason then the company are obliged to provide the total amount to be paid at the time of purchase and aren't allowed to charge different fees depending on the method of payment.

German law will differ to UK law but the principles will be the same as they come from EU directives.

If you pay with Transferwise the payment is generally sent as domestic payment rather than international, so there shouldn't be fees for the company to receive it unless they're also charged for receiving domestic payments.

jonnygee2

my husband made a purchase online for an item from a German company.

He had to pay via his bank as the company didn't accept card payments.

What company? Are you sure this is not fraud?

You should never, ever pay for an online item by bank transfer, this is why people don't use Transferwise to make purchases. If a business doesn't take card payments, take your business elsewhere!

Marchitiello

dj1471 wrote: »

I'd say any fees charged by their bank are their problem. Assuming your husband is a consumer and not buying for any business-related reason then the company are obliged to provide the total amount to be paid at the time of purchase and aren't allowed to charge different fees depending on the method of payment.

German law will differ to UK law but the principles will be the same as they come from EU directives.

If you pay with Transferwise the payment is generally sent as domestic payment rather than international, so there shouldn't be fees for the company to receive it unless they're also charged for receiving domestic payments.

I am sorry but you are simply wrong:

The seller has advertised and sold his item in EURO and he probably sells across the EU. However, whilst SEPA payments across the euro zone does not incur in any extra charges by the receiver, if the sender send the money outside of the SEPA circuit (like from the UK), the receiver will probably incur in charges, that is why when making international payments most banks offer the option to cover fees at both end.

The same apply to most UK bank accounts, with one notable exception of Nationwide, that in fact most people here use to transfer GBP to from the Fineco UK multicurrencies Account .

One of my business do a fair bit of business with the USA and Australia and we always ask that the the invoice is paid at net of all cost at both ends and that the amount is sent in the invoice currency (we sell both from a UK and EURO site) at source (some banks will work out the value in their currency and send it as such... then the receiver bank will apply their own different rate, currency fees, etc...)

colsten

jonnygee2 wrote: »

What company? Are you sure this is not fraud?

You should never, ever pay for an online item by bank transfer, this is why people don't use Transferwise to make purchases. If a business doesn't take card payments, take your business elsewhere!

Payment by bank transfer is very common in some countries, Germany as an example. They make much less use of credit cards than we do, and many companies don't offer credit card or Paypal payments.

youngretired

Thanks for the responses. I rang BOS to ask how the payment was made and they said it was via SEPA, which according to searches normally wouldn't have fees. UK are included in the SEPA payments as we are in the EU.

SEPA doesn't allow the sender to pay for all the fees, as the law changed in 2018 that SEPA had to share fees, it is only SWIFT that gives the option to pay fees.

We are dubious that BOS sent the payment via SEPA as they asked for the SWIFT/BIC code, when HSBC only asks for the IBAN number if being sent via SEPA. HSBC said that you don't use SWIFT/BIC codes on SEPA.

Ballard

I would have concerns as to whether this is a genuine company but hopefully they’d be unfounded.

I would make two points:

The U.K. is in the SEPA area.

There’s often confusion regarding Swift & SEPA. Banks use Swift to send many types of communication but the one that mostly concerns consumers are the payment messages. A SEPA payment is simply a Swift MT103 which conforms to specific guidelines. This should allow for STP (straight through processing). A Swift BIC of the recipient bank is still necessary but this can be derived from the IBAN if required.

It is therefore not inconceivable for the message to have been incorrectly formatted by the sending bank, failed STP and been manually amended at some point along the chain thus incurring charges.

youngretired

The company is legit thank you.

We'll wait until Monday and give the company a chance to advise us of the fee for sending 17.85 euros and then will use either HSBC or Barclays as we hold accounts with both.

mgdavid

youngretired wrote: »

........ will use either HSBC or Barclays as we hold accounts with both.

I use CurrencyFair for Euro purchases; very good exchange rate (like Transferwise) and a €2.50 flat fee to buy the Euros, then a SEPA payment to the supplier which goes direct to their bank account with no further fees. You just have to remember to agree the Reference field contents with the supplier so they know what the payment is for.
All done under your direct control so there's no doubts about what, why, how and when.

youngretired

We sent the payment Monday via Barclays (they don't charge for SEPA) and the recipient received the funds the next day no problems, goods are now on there way.

Raised a complaint to BOS and received a call yesterday. They never sent the payment via SEPA, as if you do online (cost £9.50) they send shared fees. Apparently to send a payment without fees you need to phone them up, as they have a different system which enables them to send the money without fees, but this would cost a customer £19.50.

Luckily got reimbursed fees, extra cost and a "Gesture of Goodwill". Shall be using Barclays from now on. BOS said they will escalate to the Website Team that International payment instructions are not clear.