Motorcycle - No Permit Charge

Transalp

I've searched throughout the forums and can't find an example of a case similar to my current situation. I am at the POPLA stage.

I received a windscreen ticket on a motorcycle parked in a residents car park with a permit scheme operated by UKPC.

I do have a permit to park in the carpark, but can't display the permit securely on a motorcycle without the risk of loss of the permit or having it stolen.

At the time of the ticket being issued, the motorcycle was parked in an area of the carpark where cars cannot park as a result of a bollard closing off access, so arguably it wasn't parked in a car-parking space, although it is within the demise of the carpark.

On receipt of the NTK I appealed on the basis of signage, and also a frustration of contract in that it is not possible to display my permit on the motorcycle and UKPC have not made provision for securely displaying permits on motorcycles. I did not confirm who was the driver, only that I was/am the registered keeper.

The appeal was rejected with UKPC saying only that there are sufficient signs advising drivers that a valid permit must be clearly displayed. They ignored the point about frustration of contract.

I'm not sure what grounds to use to appeal to POPLA, and any advice will be gratefully received.

twhitehousescat

bollard closing off access, so arguably it wasn't parked in a car-parking space, although it is within the demise of the carpark.


are you sure this land comes under there remit , as there is obviously no car parking perhaps you should get plans and look at CAR parking are accepted by local planning

Coupon-mad

I'd use the usual templates from the NEWBIES thread post #3 about 'no landowner authority' and 'unclear signs'.

But have a first point about impossibility of display of a permit on a motorcycle, and thus you believe the permit scheme, if authorised by the landowner at all, is intended for cars and vans due to the requirement to display permits on a 'dashboard/windscreen' that neither push bikes nor motorbikes have, and given the fact that bikes of any description do not take up a car parking space.

Show us what you come up with and we'll help.

Did you give away who parked? Are you sure? Didn't talk about 'displaying my permit'?

Did you get a Notice to Keeper in the post? If not, then time your POPLA appeal to get towards or past day 56, as long as the POPLA code is still in date (lasts 32 days max).

Transalp

I definitely didn't give up any information about who was the driver who parked the motorcycle either in the original appeal to UKPC in response to their NTK.

As a new user I'm not permitted to insert a URL to the appeal that I've drafted.

In the appeal I've mentioned my first two points in short paragraphs to cover it not being possible to display a permit on a motorcycle and that it was parked in an area not used for parking. Then I've used the templates to add to this covering unclear signs (the signs are actually fairly clear but many have been vandalised so do not show the full information. UKPC have shown a complete sign in their photos at the time of the contravention but there is no evidence that the sign is anywhere near where the motorcycle was parked), landowner authority, and also the operator not showing that the individual they are pursuing was the driver.

Umkomaas

As a new user I'm not permitted to insert a URL to the appeal that I've drafted.

Just copy and paste the actual appeal here, but if you've used the forum template to build around, you can omit that part, just let us see what you've added.

Fruitcake

You can either copy and paste the text here, or upload an image/document to a web hosting site such as postimage, tinypic, dropbox etcetera, then post the URL here but change http to hxxp.
Someone here will then change it to a live link.

Get your own pics of the site and signage, including the place where the bike was parked.

Include in your PoPLA appeal a demand of proof that the bike was in a parking area covered by the scammers contract, as well as a copy of a contemporaneous unredacted contract showing the area is covered by their agreement with the landowner.
This will be in addition to all the other template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES.

It's unusual for UKPC signs to be clear, even when new. Usually the font size is so small you can't read the £100 charge bit from more than a couple of paces away.
Let's see them.

The_Deep

UKPC are fraudsters, read this

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

The whole industry is a scam, relying on threats of court, and the public's ignorance of the Law, A bill is currently before parliament which will regulate the scammers, many of whom are ex-clampers.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Second Reading in the Lords this month, and, with a fair wind, will l become Law later this year..

All five readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 7-8 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

Transalp

Thanks, here is the link, please add https:// and www. to the beginning

dropbox.com/s/e8oi4ubuvyasfas/Parking%20Charge%20Appeal.pdf?dl=0

Umkomaas

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8oi4ubuvyasfas/Parking%20Charge%20Appeal.pdf?dl=0

The front cover of the Dropbox file shows what I guess is your real name when you click on your link. You might want to change it to something more anonymous.

Just a quick scan of your appeal - you need to embed photos rather than giving the assessor links to follow (there are 6 you've put in). Make your appeal look like a book, making sure you get the assessor to see the point you are making rather than expecting them to trog around the Internet searching for it.

Do you think it might be better to position and photograph your bike nearer to that yellow bollard to highlight the point you are making. It seems better to me, but it's just a personal observation.

I haven't read through the entire text of the appeal, but if you haven't done so, I'd be making quite a play on that vandalised sign, that it cannot possibly create a contract. That's the purported legal contract between you and UKPC.

nosferatu1001

Echo the above
(I never open drop box links, as I cannot trust what is in them)

The appeal MUST NOT have any links. Assessors WILL NOT follow links - they likely cant, and as it adds to their effort, why would they?

Transalp

I'll check back through the text, but any links that appear are a direct copy from the templates taken from the Newbie section.

There are embedded photos which I have included at the end, but those are my photos and I haven't linked out to them anywhere on the internet. For better effect I could place those photos at relevant places in the appeal text to illustrate the points.