Didn't receive initial fine until court papers arrived

FuzzyDuck1

Hi,
I received a claim form from the courts regarding a parking fine issued by NCP in December. I filed my defence as I am the registered keeper but not the owner of the vehicle and never received the initial fines to enable me to dispute. I'm not sure who was driving the car at the time as it was back in July but know it's not me as I've not driven the car in over 2 years. It could be one of 2 driver's insured on the vehicle but NCP can't provide me with photographs of the driver. Anyway, they're defending their claim through the courts holding me responsible as I'm the registered keeper. They got my details from the DVLA within a week of the parking offense. The current claim is for £260 claiming their costs.
I've spoken to the 2 possible driver's of the car and neither remember parking at this carpark but the Vehicle number plate recognition shows the car exiting the carpark (from the details the solicitor has sent me following the Court papers). I'm at a loss as what to do as I wasn't driving and never received the fines initially. The company aren't interested in me asking the other potential driver's to pay the initial fine of £60 and as it's later than 28days from the parking fine date are only interested in pursuing me personally. I'm very unwell and this is causing me a huge amount of stress and can't get out to CAB for advice and have speech issues so find it difficult to speak via phone to CAB.
Any advice on my legal stance on this?

Umkomaas

and can't get out to CAB for advice

That's a lucky break for you. Their advice in the context of private parking tickets is generally appalling, limited to telling everyone to just pay the charge.

You need to now deal with this as per the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2, including sending NCP a SAR - the sticky explains this and links you to a template. A SAR should get you back copies of all the letters NCP purport to have sent you.

Did you, by any chance, move house during the ownership of the vehicle in question here?

NCP/BWL CASES

As you will see from the first few pages of the forum, there is an onslaught by BWL on behalf of NCP (and a few other hitherto court-shy PPCs) which is being conducted on an industrial scale - roboclaims.

You are caught in a one-way traffic flow where you must fight or pay - there is no longer a safe 'do nothing' option.

1. Pay now, it costs you exactly what they are currently demanding.
2. Ignore it, a 'judgment in default' will inevitably follow for at least what they want - maybe with even more costs added; continue to ignore that, you're getting a CCJ with credit trashing consequences for 6 years.
3. Defend, yet lose in court, the cost award is likely to be noticeably less than their current demand ~£175.
4. Defend, and win in court, you owe them nothing and you could claim up to £95 for half a day's pay/loss of annual leave, plus travel costs @45p per mile, plus your parking cost for the day.

Your least costly option has to be 3, with hopefully a win as per 4.

But BWL/NCP cannot physically take everyone to court, and there is evidence to show that with a well constructed defence, BWL can come along with a reduced 'offer to settle', which if refused, becomes a discontinuation. We can't give you guarantees on that, but as you have little choice other than to defend (if you don't want to pay), you need to give this your very best shot.

Whether you have a good defendable case to argue, you will need to read other similar cases at the defence (or beyond) stage and learn from those.

nosferatu1001

We need to know EXACTLY what defence you sent in - hopefully you still have a copy?

The_Deep

£260 is far more than the Law allows for this sort of claim. The down market solicitors whom the PPCs engage know this, but, because they are solicitors, know that a lot of people will pay up.

It is in fact double charging and non claimable debt collectors' add ons. Imo, this is fraud, or, at the very least, improper conduct.

Were this to get to court and they won, the judge would be unlikely to award the claimant more than £175 - £200.

I urge you to report this grubby law firm to their regulatory body, the SRA.

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/code/content.page

as I am sure they do not condone this conduct.

The whole industry is a scam, relying on threats of court, and the public's ignorance of the Law, A bill is currently before parliament which will regulate the scammers, many of whom are ex-clampers.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Second Reading in the Lords this month, and, with a fair wind, will l become Law later this year..

All five readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 7-8 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

FuzzyDuck1

It is BW legal who are Persuing this on behalf of NCP. I called them as soon as the Court papers had arrived informing them that I knew nothing of the fine! They weren't interested in anything other than Persuing me as the registered keeper. They even said that as I am registered keeper I am automatically responsible for the fine regardless if I was driving or not. I've since found out that this is incorrect unless it's a council car park. I've spoken to the 2 insured driver's of the car who both deny parking there but say they have drove into the carpark to drop off and returned to collect but had the fine arrived when sent they could've disputed the "parking" in there. BW legal couldn't confirm if the car was actually parked for the duration of their claimed timing.... I have asked if they can send me photographs showing who it was who used their carpark and could I get them to pay the initial fine as I wasn't aware of any of this until court claim papers arrived and they don't want to know!!!

FuzzyDuck1

No I haven't changed addresses. Ive no option but to defend this as I feel it really unfair! I often have post go a miss, the street where I live is like a Warren and often get neighbours post and be told I've had something sent but not received. I've been lied to by BW legal as they said I was automatically liable as registered keeper but found out that this is only true In council owned carparks! Now they're saying I am liable as 28 days have passed since the last letter detailing the fine which they claim to have sent in Aug 2018 but I hadn't received them.... This is so frustrating as I shouldn't be held accountable for this and I can't prove post wasn't received

KeithP

Please re-read post #3 above.

nosferatu1001

Sharon - youre wrong
Completely
Since 2012 a law has been in palce that CAN make the RK liable for a drivers debts. POFA2012, schedule 4.

WE still need to see your defence
Not your rants
Rants are boring to read and irrelevant if you want any constructive help. Facts are what are needed here.

Coupon-mad

They even said that as I am registered keeper I am automatically responsible for the fine regardless if I was driving or not. I've since found out that this is incorrect unless it's a council car park.

Completely wrong. In July 2018, Britannia's NTKs, if served within a week, certainly had the right statutory wording to hold you liable as keeper.

What did your defence say, word for word (you must have kept a copy)?

The only way to try to rescue this is at Witness Statement/evidence stage.

The_Slithy_Tove

SharonA wrote: »

Hi,
I filed my defence as I am the registered keeper but not the owner of the vehicle and never received the initial fines to enable me to dispute.

What did your defence say? Based on your posts so far, I am not hopeful that it's robust and complete enough. For a start, it isn't and never was a "fine".

SharonA wrote: »

I called them as soon as the Court papers had arrived informing them that I knew nothing of the fine!

Never call them, especially as we are now in the legal process. EVERYTHING must be in writing.

SharonA wrote: »

They even said that as I am registered keeper I am automatically responsible for the fine regardless if I was driving or not. I've since found out that this is incorrect unless it's a council car park.

It's not automatic. They have to get all the processes right. As you don't appear to have received a Notice to Keeper, they have probably failed already. But we need to see what they may claim to have sent, which will be part of the information they MUST provide you (once you ask for it).

FuzzyDuck1

The first I knew about this fine was when I received these court
papers. Had i have received the initial fine, I would have
disputed the fine with the company as I was not the driver or even
in the car. CCTV would have been able to prove this.
I contacted BW legal as details were on the claim form and they
said they couldn't stop the Court proceedings and told me that as
i am the registered keeper with the DVLA I am responsible for this
fine regardless of if I was driving or not. I do not believe this
to be lawful with fines on private land. I am not responsible for
this fine as I wasn't the person who parked on this land. This
has made me rather poorly and I am already in poor health with a
disability and on benefits and cannot afford this fine when I
wasnt the person responsible.