Witnessing Signing a New Home Lease

Coolhand1952

Is the developer or any of the developers sales team allowed under English/Welsh law to
witness the signing of a House Lease?

da_rule

There are no substantive provisions as to who can act as a witness. The general rule is that the witness cannot be a party to the document themselves and they should not have an interest in the document. Also, they should not be connected to party to the document (e.g. family members).

Can't your solicitor witness it?

davidmcn

Why are you asking? Any risk would really be for them rather than you.

Coolhand1952

I am asking because like many people who have purchased New Build Leasehold Properties I was the victim of a sting. Someone mentioned to me that it was illegal for the property seller to sign to state they have witnessed the signing of the Property Lease as is what happened in my case, according to them it came under the same law as signing a property Deed??? My conveyance solicitor has now been struck off, he was a very dodgy customer who believe it or not was the neighbour of the Property Developers salesperson?? I have since found out is another dodgy customer.

davidmcn

Coolhand1952 wrote: »

I am asking because like many people who have purchased New Build Leasehold Properties I was the victim of a sting.

What do you mean by a "sting"?

Someone mentioned to me that it was illegal for the property seller to sign to state they have witnessed the signing of the Property Lease

Who's the "someone"? What law were they thinking of?

according to them it came under the same law as signing a property Deed???

Well, a lease is a property deed, so that much is true.

My conveyance solicitor has now been struck off, he was a very dodgy customer who believe it or not was the neighbour of the Property Developers salesperson??

I'll believe that somebody had to live next door to the salesperson. But not sure that this necessarily proves anything about your issues.

What is it you're hoping to do? If you prove that you didn't sign the lease, then you don't have any title to your house. And even if you didn't sign the lease itself, you almost certainly signed the purchase contract saying you would sign the lease.

Coolhand1952

Hi, the someone was a friend who used to be a trainee Solicitor who pointed me in the direction of the following passage taken from the HM Land Registry.

A party to the deed cannot witness the signature of another party to the deed (Seal v Claridge (1881) 7 QBD 516 at 519).

chunkytfg

Why are you asking though? Do you think there is something to gain or that you've lost from someone witnessing what you signed?

diggingdude

Someone wants a payout

davidmcn

Coolhand1952 wrote: »

Hi, the someone was a friend who used to be a trainee Solicitor who pointed me in the direction of the following passage taken from the HM Land Registry.

A party to the deed cannot witness the signature of another party to the deed (Seal v Claridge (1881) 7 QBD 516 at 519).

Well, even if that is still good law, the other party is (presumably) a limited company, not the salesperson.

Coolhand1952

The Salesperson was not the lease owner/landlord admittingly. I would have still thought the salesperson, as the representative of the party/landlord, and the individual responsible for selling me the Leasehold Property was in the circumstances "one and the same"?

My reason for asking is to get an overall picture of the extent of my conveyance solicitors professionalism and honesty in dealing with my purchase. He was charged and found guilty of Forgery, Conflict of Interest, deliberately misleading clients and dishonesty in relation to other dealings with clients during the period he represented me.

davidmcn

Coolhand1952 wrote: »

I would have still thought the salesperson, as the representative of the party/landlord, and the individual responsible for selling me the Leasehold Property was in the circumstances "one and the same"?

Nope.

My reason for asking is to get an overall picture of the extent of my conveyance solicitors professionalism and honesty in dealing with my purchase.

I don't know what the choice of witness had to do with your solicitor, or why it would have made any difference if there had been somebody else witnessing your signature? It's the same lease.

He was charged and found guilty of Forgery, Conflict of Interest, deliberately misleading clients and dishonesty in relation to other dealings with clients during the period he represented me.

Ok. Well, if you've actually got a claim against him for negligence then you might want to try pursuing that. But I can't see how this stuff about the witness is going to help you any.