UKPC PCN received - quick questions before 26 day appeal

BobLak

Dear friends,

Firstly can I express my gratitude at the amazing level of depth and detail provided in the Newbie forum post, and all the input by regular members to help.

As the title suggests the driver received a PCN from UKPC at a UK supermarket.

It was only received today so I as per the Newbie post I am aware of the '26 day rule' - However to ensure I get everything in order I just wanted to start work on my appeals letter today and have it ready and waiting.

Before I do, a couple of questions -

1) The car park is in the shape of the number '9' (Think birds eye) - Now there is signage in the '0' bit of the 9, however in the tail area there is no signage at all (despite being plenty of marked bays in this area).

The driver parked in an area of the car park where there is no marked bays (I have photos of this area showing no signage but where people regularly park - (ironically in the picture another car is shown with a ticket for parking in the same area that the driver received - a lot of people have got tickets apparantly in the last few days as previously parking in this 'unmarked area' was never penalised).

Is that enough to include a section on 'The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself' in the appeals process?

2) After the driver received the ticket and left, I walked to the car park to take the above photos. During this time, the store manager was in coversation the the UKPC attendant issuing tickets. I managed to record some of the conversation - the UKPC staff kept turning to keep his voice away from the microphone, so some parts are not 100% clear, but here is the really clear bits that I've transcribed: (I start recording as the Store manager is telling the UKPC employee there is not enough signage in this area).

Store manager: "....(They) pass loadsa signs to get here to this bit of car park, but there's none here..."
UKPC: - "Yea that makes sense, that makes sense - Where would you want them? (Additional signage)
Store manager " Against there, and against the wall, just so customers are aware this is all part of the same car park
Staff member 2 "Can't this are be split for only store access?"
Store Manager "It's not our land so that's the thing..."
UKPC: "Ok what I'm gonna do is have a word with my manager now, to put more signage in - What I will do is not ticket as much... I will still need to ticket but I won't do it as much ...But that's a fair point, that's a good point as well......But ideally.... Mate are you recording me??!"
Me: "Yep, audio only though"
He went on to moan about GDPR, but that's the gist of it in terms of the audio.

Given the above conversation, is that enough grounds to also include in the claim that even the UKPC guy acknowledges signage is inadequate?

3) This issue has made it into the local news, with the land owner coming out making a statement saying that they are investigating and people have been refunded previously for mitigating circumstances. If anyone feels they have been wrongly ticketed, contact our managing agents or UKPC so that refunds can be issued where appropriate.

Should I write a letter of complaint to the Managing company BEFORE the 26 days stating the above reasons on why my PCN should be cancelled?

Thanks very much for you advice in advance,

BOB (Not real name )

Redx

1) of course


2) yes, but not sure how much good that would do in any appeal


3) yes , DEFINITELY

BobLak

Thank you so much for your quick reply.

I will get on the managing agents (JLL) and advise when I have received any responses in case it helps others in a similar situation.

BobLak

Please see below my draft letter to the management company - I think I have all the relevant details down, but if there is anything further I should add to help aid my case please kindly let me know.

========================================


Dear Sir/Madam,
Earlier this morning the driver of my car was issued a Parking Charge Notice on land managed by you at a XXX Supermarket in XXXX, XXXX, UK.
The land owners (XXXXX) have been vocal in the local news about a sudden rise in tickets issued in the last week and have advised that people who feel they have been wrongly issued a PCN should contact their managing agent (XXX).
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about the predatory conduct of your contractors (UKPC ltd), and by extension yourselves (XXX) to your client landowner and to my MP.
I feel strongly that invoice has been issued incorrectly for the following reasons outlined below:
1) There is no signage whatsoever in the area of the car park where the ‘alleged infringement’ happened. I have photo evidence of this that I can send to you separately.
2) I have video evidence taken in the car park clearly whereby it can be clearly heard the XXX store manager discussing with the UKPC employee about the level of signage in the car park, whereby the UKPC employee CLEARLY acknowledges the store managers concern that the signage is inadequate in that particular area of the car park. Again I am happy to send this on, but below is a transcription of the discussions:

Store manager: "....(They) pass loadsa signs to get here to this bit of car park, but there's none (Parking enforcement signs( here..."
UKPC: - "Yea that makes sense, that makes sense - Where would you want them? (Additional signage)
Store manager " Against there, and against the wall, just so customers are aware this is all part of the same car park
Staff member 2 "Can't this area be split for only store access?"
Store Manager "It's not our land so that's the thing..."
UKPC: "Ok what I'm gonna do is have a word with my manager now, to put more signage in - What I will do is not ticket as much... I will still need to ticket but I won't do it as much ...But that's a fair point, that's a good point as well.....”

3) Further, given the admission by the UKPC staff member that he will not ticket ‘as much’ – I mean it is simply ridiculous – If there was no evidence of doubt of an infringement, then there is no reason for him not to ticket. Clearly even he is aware that what he is doing is not right.

Given the above, I would request that you please contact UKPC Ltd and advise them to cancel down the charges in relation to this particular case.

The PCN details are as follows:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Yours faithfully

XXX

The_Deep

UKPS are fraudsters

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

The whole industry is a scam, relying on threats of court, and the public's ignorance of the Law, A bill is currently before parliament which will regulate the scammers, many of whom are ex-clampers.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Second Reading in the Lords this month, and, with a fair wind, will l become Law later this year..

All five readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 7-8 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

BobLak

Good afternoon all,

Good news, received an email from the managing agent saying they have requested the charge be cancelled and have also requested additional signage to be implemented.

An easy win without having to deal with the $@!$ at UKPC!

Thank you for the guidance in this matter from all who've posted on different threads with useful information :beer::j