Dispute with Builder - Advice Please!

PurpleIris

Hi all,

We instructed a builder to build an extension last year with the contract set to take 14 weeks and an estimated completion date of mid-December. They started joining the new roof to the old mid November and to this day we are still not watertight, suffering many leaks over the past couple of months. Despite many promises that it would still be done before Christmas this did not happen. After Christmas we chased every week asking to get watertight and secure - the builder kept promising but didn't seem to focus on getting it done. A week ago we decided as he was not doing what we were asking we told him to leave and we would get another builder to complete the work.

Quotes have come in for the completion and it appears we have overpaid the original builder for the work he has done despite him insisting we now owe him. He has become threatening and abusive both in email and in person to the point that I am instructing a solicitor as he will not listen to our point of view and just wants more money.

Although we initially intended to get another builder in to take over we are considering getting individual tradesmen for certain jobs such as the roof, plastering, plumbing etc. But we are thinking of DIYing the rest ourselves. Mainly due to concerns other builders not being available until late April and if we cannot recover the overpayment from the original builder we will struggle to afford to complete the build.

Ultimately we want the original builder to acknowledge that we do not owe him anything and leave us alone. If we can get any money back it would be a bonus but if we are doing some of the work ourselves I'm not sure we can give that a financial value. Can we use the quotes from other builders to determine the value of work the original builder has done, compare that to what we have paid and then claim the difference back from him even if we don't go with any of the potential builders?

Anyone have any experience of this or advice please?

Dean000000

out of curiosity - how much was the quoted works (what did it include) and how much had you paid, and when?

PurpleIris

Job was fixed price of £65k, we have paid £44k to date. The last £10K we advanced a month ago in good faith at the time and didn’t expect to end up in a situation like this. Potential new builders are quoting around £30k to complete.

Dean000000

wowzers. So double height extension, full width of your house to the rear?


from the limited information you have given, its difficult to say whether the builder is more than 2/3's of the way into the build...


Is the second floor in, joisted, boarded? Are the walls plastered? Are there any services in (Plumbing or electricity)


Did the builder have to relocate and underground services beforehand (drainage) and was any fees (such as strucral engineer calcs etc) included within the fee?


Perhaps tell him you are willing to entertain his claim that you owe him money, but in return you would like a breakdown of the original proposed 65k so you can 'value' the works.


if the builder front loads his quote (i.e. for example claims the foundation work was worth 50k) and the plastering was worth £500 you are able to apply some logic to his claim and negotiate a reasonable settlement.


If I were you, id appear to be willing to settle the 'account' but be asking for substantiation for his claims.


would be helpful if you posted some pics of its current state - for a more accurate assessment of the 'build to date' and 'cost to complete'


cheers

Dean000000

likewise - do you have any plans? did it go in for planning permission (did it even need it?)


if so - they'll be on the planning portal (whether you submitted it, your builder on an architect)


just gives a better picture for all to advise upon

PurpleIris

It is a 3 storey side extension (approx 80sqm internal space). There was some underpinning that needed doing initially which was included in the quote. To date they have completed the underpinning, rear retaining wall (as rear of lower ground floor built into hill), block walls, built roof structure and dormers. They have rendered 80%. Everything inside is outstanding. Roof has been felt and battened but it needs redoing as there are many issues with it. There are also other items outstanding such as the reinforced concrete floor hasn't been done, only some roof insulation is fitted and several other small issues. It's not quite straight forward as they have dotted around doing different jobs when they felt like it and not working in a logical order.

There is no way we owe him more money. We have had several contractors confirm there is just too much work outstanding compared to what we have already paid.

teneighty

If it looks like getting legal you will probably need an independent valuation of the work completed so far and a valuation of the work outstanding. You will need a Chartered Quantity Surveyor for that or maybe just an estimator.

It would also be worth getting the completed work inspected to make sure it is satisfactory. You do not want the valuation of completed work to include defective work.

The cost of completing the work is bound to be higher than the original quoted price due to the added complications of taking on the job half way through so you can claim for that extra cost only not the basic cost of the incomplete work. Plus you can claim for all associated losses and expenses such as the quantity surveyor and solicitors fees etc. This of course assumes you have followed all the necessary rules to legally terminate the contract.

teneighty

Hang on a minute, an 80 square metre (internal area) 3 storey extension with underpinning and a retaining wall for £65k...dream on.

There is something very odd going on here.

Dean000000

It’s very difficult to say. Underpinning is an expensive process, and retaining walls aren’t cheap either. In addition the foundations required for a 3 story extension will also be substantial.

What spec was the internal to include? Plumbing, heating, electricity? Plasterboard walls, decoration?

Are the windows and doors installed (or onsite)

Being honest - and again with the limited information to hand, what you describe doesn’t appear to warrant a further 30k’s worth of work?

Are you able to post pics?

Please be assured I’m asking with a genuine intention to assist you with my honest opinion.

N.b if I were being cynical, it’s in your builders interests to ‘downplay’ the value of works completed, in order to ‘upsell’ The value of works remaining..... in Addition, on occasions when people fall out with their builder they normally ‘just want it done’ and can sometimes overpay for the relief of just having it complete....

Just saying...

Dean000000

teneighty wrote: »

Hang on a minute, an 80 square metre (internal area) 3 storey extension with underpinning and a retaining wall for £65k...dream on.

There is something very odd going on here.

I think that’s the equivalent of a 5 x 5m extension x 3 floors (rather that 80m2 footprint) just in case that’s what you are thinking?

Either way it seems competitive hence my further questions.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility dependant upon spec the internals included for...

teneighty

Dean000000 wrote: »

I think that’s the equivalent of a 5 x 5m extension x 3 floors (rather that 80m2 footprint) just in case that’s what you are thinking?

Either way it seems competitive hence my further questions.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility dependant upon spec the internals included for...

Thanks for pointing that out, yes I did know it was the total floor area not 80 square metres per floor. Although OP quoted it as the internal floor area so the actual gross area we would use for budget estimate purposes is going to me more like 90 square metres plus.

I don't know where you live where £65k is not beyond the realms of possibility for a 90 square metre 3 storey extension. I suspect around 1978.