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Keyless Entry thefts....
Comments
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Nothing wrong with keyless Entry & Start, except that the the fob is broadcasting 24/7/365 - Why the blazes does it not have a simple ON/OFF Switch ?
I've read that Mercedes are developing/have developed a key which only transmits the signal when it detects movement. so when its left on a worktop or whatever overnight, the signal isn't being transmitted.0 -
The best thing to do is purchase a ghost immobiliser.0
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I thought we were talking about "keyless" - RFID relay - theft?You can have your car keys with you a hundred miles away it wont make a bit of difference if the thieves can pop a window, plug into the OBD port and reprogramme a key in less than a minute.
Anyway, OBD theft goes back before RFID relay. And is just as easy to block with aftermarket port-blockers. But most manufacturers blocked that years ago - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/60264/bmw-owners-offered-fix-hi-tech-theft
"Wah, I bought a used car, and I need a new key, but the PIN's been lost, and it'll cost me thousands to replace the security system..."Add a pin code to the ECU software in the same way they do on your cars radio to prevent the above reprogramming.
Fiat had the "lifetime master key" in the 90s. PSA had keypad two-factor authentication in the 90s. They both got dropped because of consumer resistance.
B'sides, the stronger the security gets, the more likely thieves are to move to violent home-invasion key theft, especially if/when two-factor comes into play.0 -
Oh, good. Yet more pointlessly fallible technology to work around the idle user having to actually press a button...I've read that Mercedes are developing/have developed a key which only transmits the signal when it detects movement. so when its left on a worktop or whatever overnight, the signal isn't being transmitted.0 -
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I thought we were talking about "keyless" - RFID relay - theft?
Anyway, OBD theft goes back before RFID relay. And is just as easy to block with aftermarket port-blockers. But most manufacturers blocked that years ago - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/60264/bmw-owners-offered-fix-hi-tech-theft
Relay theft is one form, but wont help the thieves if their target vehicle is parked up in a car park and the driver with key could be anywhere.
This is what I'm talking about.
https://youtu.be/4bAh8LrsoAs
https://youtu.be/N4B7CsymrK0
https://youtu.be/uN74SfNiwcQ (unsuccessful that time)
Good on BMW, perhaps other manufacturers should follow suit. Ford for instance have such a device you can buy from them.
https://www.ford-accessories.co.uk/safety-+-security/antitheft-devices/obd-port-protector/OBD-31719"Wah, I bought a used car, and I need a new key, but the PIN's been lost, and it'll cost me thousands to replace the security system..."
Fiat had the "lifetime master key" in the 90s. PSA had keypad two-factor authentication in the 90s. They both got dropped because of consumer resistance.
Do manufacturers charge thousands for radio pins? I doubt manufacturers could get away with charging customers such sums and I think with the recent spike in car theft the customer resistance you refer to would be much less.B'sides, the stronger the security gets, the more likely thieves are to move to violent home-invasion key theft, especially if/when two-factor comes into play.
That is of course a risk plus an increase in car jackings, thefts of keys from public places such as pubs and gyms etc. But I wouldn't see those hightened risks as a reason to do nothing about keyless thefts.0 -
OK, so you're confused about "keyless entry theft". Clue: They aren't theft of keyless-entry cars. They're just a higher-tech version of hotwiring of non-keyless cars. As you say, break in and access the car's security system, reprogramming it to accept a new key.This is what I'm talking about.
https://youtu.be/4bAh8LrsoAs
https://youtu.be/N4B7CsymrK0
https://youtu.be/uN74SfNiwcQ (unsuccessful that time)
Often it was simply cheaper to replace the head unit. But so long as the PIN is stored somewhere on the manufacturer's systems - or, worse, calculatable from a serial number or the VIN - it's insecure and hackable.Do manufacturers charge thousands for radio pins?
It's not an issue now, because discrete head units don't exist - the back end is part of the wider infotainment system integrated into the body control computer and other parts of the car's multiplexed electronics.0 -
George_Michael wrote: »What about personal responsibility?
If someone knows their car is vulnerable, why shouldn't it be up to them to do what is reasonable to protect what may be the most expensive item they own?
Regarding the problems with tumble driers catching fire.
Would you also state that it's not up to the owners of suspect machines to keep a close eye on them whilst being used as it's up to the manufacturer to correct the design flaw with the appliance?
Missing the point a little... why should someone who's spent £30k or so on a car have to then compensate for the major security flaw that its easy to get into, especially when this has been known for a while? This is very lax from a company point of view...
re tumble drier, the manufacturer is recalling these to change - they have accepted there is a design flaw... don't see that occurring in the automotive industry?0 -
OK, so you're confused about "keyless entry theft". Clue: They aren't theft of keyless-entry cars. They're just a higher-tech version of hotwiring of non-keyless cars. As you say, break in and access the car's security system, reprogramming it to accept a new key.
Sorry no I'm not confused, those are keyless entry and start models, they aren't busily cutting a physical key in there are they? Do you see them put a key in any of the doors before they enter the vehicles once they've programmed a key? But as it seems you want to limit the discussion to relay theft then go ahead.Often it was simply cheaper to replace the head unit. But so long as the PIN is stored somewhere on the manufacturer's systems - or, worse, calculatable from a serial number or the VIN - it's insecure and hackable.
It's not an issue now, because discrete head units don't exist - the back end is part of the wider infotainment system integrated into the body control computer and other parts of the car's multiplexed electronics.
So after all that the answer is no they won't charge someone thousands for a ECU pin number.0
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