Bad survey - and a much lower valuation!

Mareland6

Hello

I have a twofold question.

Some backstory

Original agreed price: £159,950

Lenders valuation noticed a structural issue (a minor thermal crack) and following a quote, offered a mortgage retention. The seller hesitantly reduced the price to £157,886.

The lender valued it at £149,950, and once the work is done, at £159,950.

We had the home buyers survey and as FTBs, in our minds it looks pretty bad. We have talked it through with the surveyor and while some things are not urgent, others are and overall we are looking at several £1000s in repairs.

Some examples:

A complete roof overhaul within the next 12 months
Windows that do not hold up to fire safety standards - plus some failed double glazing
Absolutely no certificates
Significant subsidence to the front of the house
The walls need to be checked as they believe the pointing to be cement and not lime mortar

This is all in addition to the other work that needs to be done at the request of the lender.

They valued the house at £145k. They have told us directly they do not believe it to be worth what we are currently paying.

I expected some issues as it is an old house. But we are looking at 17 'reds, 6 'ambers' and no greens at all. We have approached the estate agent and attempted to renegotiate the price but the seller is not prepared to even consider a new price, to the point where they have threatened to put it back on the market. The estate agent even expressed surprised that we would ask for this and said that the seller was planning on moving out today (we haven't even exchanged!).

1. Do surveyors tend to overstate things? Are we right to be concerned?
2. Are we right to try and open price negotiations here? The seller and estate agent seem to think we are being unreasonable. Would you walk away?

Thanks!

MovingForwards

The subsidence would be enough to make me walk away. Let alone thinking about trying to insure it

The rest wouldn't bother me, for the right price.

If it's been valued at what it has then that is what they think it's worth. The seller clearly knows how much they want.

davidmcn

Mareland6 wrote: »

A complete roof overhaul within the next 12 months

That seems strangely specific. What exactly does the surveyor say?

Windows that do not hold up to fire safety standards

In what way? Nice to have but doesn't sound urgent.

plus some failed double glazing

Not necessarily expensive to sort. Not urgent anyway.

Absolutely no certificates

Certificates for what?

Significant subsidence to the front of the house

Ok, that would make me twitchy. But presumably viewed as non-progressive and still mortgageable?

The walls need to be checked as they believe the pointing to be cement and not lime mortar

So, get them checked?

Apart from subsidence it doesn't sound a big deal. The red/amber/green stuff doesn't literally mean "don't buy it if there's a red", things like gas can be "red" meaning "I'm not a gas engineer so I'm not commenting on it".

Cakeguts

Was it a much bigger house than you thought you could afford in the area that it is in? If so that is because it needs work done on it.

Sibz

I assume you have extra to pay for the property on top of the mortgage if the Lender isn't willing to lend the full amount.

Have you had a structural survey done re the subsidence?

Mareland6

A complete roof overhaul within the next 12 months - literally this - 'covering should be considered to be coming towards the end of its life', no ventilation in roof space, no felt, negligable roof insulation to 1st floor

Absolutely no certificates - heating appliances, electrics, gas, water - we would need to get this all checked ourselves, which we would be prepared to do

Significant subsidence to the front of the house - all it says it that it needs to be investigated further

We would absolutely get these things looked into, however I would prefer to get some advice and quotes before exchanging.

They are going to put it back on the market if we don't make a decision by Monday (we received the report on Thursday afternoon) so there is simply no time.

I would be prepared to suck these costs up but the valuation is £12k lower than the current price. I'm concerned that it just isn't worth the price we are paying, in the current state it is in. I expected that we would have to do some repairs, it being an older property. On the other hand, I expected the vendor/EA to allow us some time to investigate further, or to be able to negotiate the price a bit.

Mareland6

Sibz wrote: »

I assume you have extra to pay for the property on top of the mortgage if the Lender isn't willing to lend the full amount.

Have you had a structural survey done re the subsidence?

No time - the seller has given us a deadline of Monday to agree to exchange. That's better of the initial deadline of THE SAME DAY we got the report... They will pull out then.

We have a £20kish deposit so the lender is giving us £139k. The lender is giving us exactly what we need. But you're right, if we didn't have such a large deposit they probably wouldn't give us the full amount and presumably, they aren't too fussed about what we pay on top for the deposit. Try telling the EA that though, they think that the lender agreeing to the £139k is evidence that the house is worth £160k.

davidmcn

Mareland6 wrote: »

A complete roof overhaul within the next 12 months - literally this - 'covering should be considered to be coming towards the end of its life', no ventilation in roof space, no felt, negligable roof insulation to 1st floor

Roofs spend years "coming towards the end of their lives", nobody can determine that the end of its life will be this year and not in 5 years' time. If it's currently leaking, obviously that will need immediate attention.

Absolutely no certificates - heating appliances, electrics, gas, water - we would need to get this all checked ourselves, which we would be prepared to do

You don't need to get all of that checked, and it's not normal for sellers to provide certificates. Again, if anything actually doesn't work at the moment then that's something to budget for. Gas and electricity checks are easy enough to arrange if you want. Heating appliances (other than ones which would be covered by the gas check)? What water certificate?

jonesMUFCforever

If they go through with their threat of pulling out, do they have another buyer waiting in the wings?
IMO don't let them rush you into a decision which could be very expensive for you.
Call their bluff!

VintageHistorian

Mareland6 wrote: »

No time - the seller has given us a deadline of Monday to agree to exchange. That's better of the initial deadline of THE SAME DAY we got the report... They will pull out then.

When did they accept your offer? Pushing for exchange ASAP when you've had an offer accepted 6 months ago is one thing, pushing for exchange when the offer was accepted 6 weeks ago is a bit more extreme.

The subsidence is the main thing that would concern me in the report. We had a failed double-glazed window but that didn't come as a surprise, you can see it quite easily. We also knew we'd have to pay for any certificates for gas and electric, you'd be lucky if your vendors offered to pay for them.

I'd be going back to the estate agent and explaining that you've been told there's possible subsidence and as a result you're looking in to your next options. If your vendors decide to pull out then, frankly, let them. If it's a real problem then their next buyers will also probably have a surveyor who spots it. If it's not a real problem then you've saved yourself weeks of stress worrying about it, and don't have to deal with a stroppy vendor.

Sibz

Mareland6 wrote: »

No time - the seller has given us a deadline of Monday to agree to exchange. That's better of the initial deadline of THE SAME DAY we got the report... They will pull out then.

Why the rush? Has this been going on for ages already? (in your opinion)
You have to consider that if they are rushing and threatening like this perhaps they really don't want you looking further into the subsidence (or something) - imo you'd have to be quite naive/desperate to not get a structural survey done on this before proceeding. Having just purchased buildings insurance for a new place and looked over a few policies - a subsidence claim requires you pay around £1000 excess and that's on a new build with no history of subsidence - consider how much this will be when subsidence is on the report and current (and that's if it's even insurable). Does your mortgage have a condition that the building is insured? (I think that's common place). If it is ensured, are the insurers aware of the subsidence? - if not your insurance isn't worth the paper it's on if you have a subsidence issue.

I'd look elsewhere for a suitable property. I'm not entirely trusting in strangers selling houses