Danger of Stagnant Water in Your home

Rambler1

Hi,
I thought that I should let everyone know about this nasty practice so that you can watch out for it in your home or potential home.
Recently my daughter bought a house in which there had been several updates carried out including the installation of a Combi Boiler. In this house the old system used a hot water cylinder which was located in the loft along with the header tanks. Normal practice when doing this update is to remove and dispose of all tanks as they are not required with the Combi Boiler. However whoever did this work simply turned off the valves and left the tanks still full of water in the loft.
Over recent years there have been a number of cases of Legionnaire's disease (which can be fatal) caused by stagnant water which had become contaminated. Having made enquiries we were advised; A) The council didn't deal with it, The C A B couldn't suggest anyone who would remove the tanks and water, C) The water companies didn't have anything to do with it and couldn't advise who could do the job, C) The water companies made it clear that "You must not pour the suspect water down the drain". Has anyone got a magic wand we could borrow??
My message is; please be careful when buying an older house which has a Combi Boiler installed because the cowboys who fitted it may have left a dangerous trap for any unsuspecting house buyer.

Ganga

You must be an unlucky family,when we had our combi fitted the plumber drained the whole system including BOTH tanks in the loft ( we had a mixer tap plus shower in the bath ) and this had to be fed of a tank so you could not be scalded if some one turned a tap on in the house whilst someone was in the shower.
He also removed all the pipework in the airing cupboard that was conected to the tanks,i said that i would remove the tanks to keep the labour charges down which i did.

rach_k

Wouldn't the surveyor notice a tank still full of water in the loft of a house with a combi boiler?

We still have the tank in our loft, although the plumber drained it, as it would've been a pain to remove it. We'll get it removed when we have the loft converted.

I'm pretty sure you can buy a test for the water in your loft. Test the water and you might just be able to drain it.

tacpot12

The legionella bacteria only becomes dangerous when it is inhaled, and is killed by heating about 60 degrees C. It also doesn't like water that is cooler than 20 degrees C. The water in the loft and header tanks should be colder than this at the moment so now would be a good time to remove them.

The process I would use is:

Wear a half-face respirator rated to stop bacterial, e.g. eg Eclipse P3 (available from ScrewFix and Toolstation), close-fitting Safety Googles, and Waterproof gloves

Drain the water out of the tanks into a large saucepan or billycan with a lid. This needs to be done in a way that minimises the creation of droplets/sprays/mists. A small hand operated pump could work to empty the header tanks from the top, or you could try to get a hose onto one of the pipes beneath the valves that have been turned off. Same with the hot water cylinder to drain it. Have some fresh water in the bottom of the saucepan and have the outlet from the pump or any drain hose weighted so that the foul water is discharged under the level of the fresh water. Have the lid on when filling the saucepan, and pull the hose out and drop it into a bucket of fresh water while you bring the saucepan out of the loft. Ideally the bucket will have a close fitting lid.

Put the lid on before bringing the saucepan out of the loft.

Boil the water on the hob. You need to wait for 1 minute after the largest bubbles are seen (called a rolling boil). The water will then not contain harmful levels of legionalla and can be disposed of down the toilet or sink, but not a rainwater sewer. Refill the saucepan with fresh water and return to the loft for as many times as it takes to empty the tanks.

Use a microfibre cloth to mop out the header tanks until they are dry. Gently wring it out into the bucket of water, being careful not to create unnecessary droplets. if the bucket has a lid, pop it and take the water to the hob. Be careful to pour into the (same) saucepan slowly. Boil the water and the microfibre cloth in the saucepan as above (rolling boil for 1 min).

Wash the saucepan, ideally in a dishwasher as these also use water hot enough to kill legionella bateria.


Your warning is noted, but legionella risk is somewhat overstated.

Norman_Castle

As I never use the hot tap on the kitchen sink could this cause similar problems?

keithdc

Rambler1 wrote: »

Hi,
I thought that I should let everyone know about this nasty practice so that you can watch out for it in your home or potential home.
Recently my daughter bought a house in which there had been several updates carried out including the installation of a Combi Boiler. In this house the old system used a hot water cylinder which was located in the loft along with the header tanks. Normal practice when doing this update is to remove and dispose of all tanks as they are not required with the Combi Boiler. However whoever did this work simply turned off the valves and left the tanks still full of water in the loft.
Over recent years there have been a number of cases of Legionnaire's disease (which can be fatal) caused by stagnant water which had become contaminated. Having made enquiries we were advised; A) The council didn't deal with it, The C A B couldn't suggest anyone who would remove the tanks and water, C) The water companies didn't have anything to do with it and couldn't advise who could do the job, C) The water companies made it clear that "You must not pour the suspect water down the drain". Has anyone got a magic wand we could borrow??
My message is; please be careful when buying an older house which has a Combi Boiler installed because the cowboys who fitted it may have left a dangerous trap for any unsuspecting house buyer.

Is there confirmed legionella or just a potential risk?

What specific question did you ask the water board? If you said that you thought the tank contained legionella , that may explain their answer.

coffeehound

I guess you could also add chlorine tablets to open/lidded tanks (in accordance with the proper procedure) before emptying to neutralise the risk

bris

Top tip, never drink stagnant water in an old tank in the loft.

southcoastrgi

The roof tanks or cylinder in the roof won't be used or connected if you have a combi so unless you go up into the roof & have a shower in the roof tank it will pose no danger from legionella

getmore4less

Do you want to remove the redundant items and pipework?


A long hose and you could easily syphon of the tanks.

the pipe work will need checking to see what is still connected to attempt draining cylinder.

If lucky there will be an isolated drain point and a single feed from the header.

stator

Surely it would have been harder work for the plumber to leave the tank full of water? The tank would have holes near the bottom for the old pipes. The old pipes must go somewhere. If he left them in situ then they must have some kind of stopcock or seal on them. So to drain the tank you just need to connect the old pipe to a bucked and turn the stopcock on.
The old water from a cold water tank can just go into the sink drain.
The old water from the central heating header tank, if there is one, must not go into the drain as it probably contains anti-freeze. If you hire a plumber the must have a way of disposing of this stuff.