Blocked from Probate

proximacentauri

Hey guys, usually I post in the money saver forums however as I am helping my mother administer the estate of my late stepfather who sadly passed away 6 weeks ago, its not a huge estate but should see my mum through her retirement. I have hit a bit of a wall in terms of trying to apply for Probate. I am helping my mum as an administrator, but effectively I am doing most of the work for her as she is not in a good state to be honest.

So basically, I have contacted all of my stepdads accounts and contacted all the payees and debtors, pretty much everyone owing any benefits or entitlements to my stepdad's estate have already been in touch in the last few weeks or have already settled up with my mum who is surviving spouse.

All except one. And they are the ones who owe the most to the estate. The only payees who have not been very helpful so far are his workplace who owe the estate a 'death in service' benefit which he had enrolled in as part of his pension (a 4x salary scheme) and my mum was named as beneficiary. The company also owe my stepdad's estate his final salary as well as his expenses leading up until his sudden death (heart attack).

So they are insisting on a Grant of Probate before providing any documents or paying any monies due the estate. Everyone else accepted my mum's marriage certificate. The company claim they need the Grant of Probate for 'compliance' however we think they are blocking us.

As 6 weeks have now passed since they were notified and they have just recently asked for the Grant of Probate after all this time, we called the death in service insurers (Zurich) and they told us that the claim for my stepdad had been activated by the company but they were waiting on the company to submit documentation to have the claim processed. Nothing can be done to activate the claim until those docs had been submitted by the company.

So my mum is sitting in limbo waiting for the company to submit the documentation, a final settlement figure cant even be established and my mum cannot submit the Inheritance form and therefore cannot apply for a Grant of Probate - and therefore the company are sitting as a blocker because they want the Grant of Probate - but they are blocking the whole process.

Any advice? We were hoping to do Probate ourselves but seem to hit upon a unmovable object in the form of my late stepdads employers. I am thinking of now advising my mum to hire a lawyer but it really isn't fair that lawyers fees have to come off the estate (which isn't really that big).

Advice?

Flugelhorn

They are being very unhelpful!

I am not entirely sure of this but I think the death in service benefit is usually paid outside the estate directly to your mother, so doesn't need to go onto the IHT forms ? Which may mean you can go ahead and get the grant of probate without the figure. Though why they won't just accept the death and marriage cert is a mystery.

Someone else had similar problem https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5216574/death-in-service-and-probate

Tom99

They should be able to tell you the final salary amount, even if they won't pay it, or you can enter an estimated amount which you can probably have a good guess at.
They should not be requiring probate for the death in service payment as these are nearly always outside the deceased's estate so do not get entered on the probate/IHT forms.

getmore4less

I would just go with the data you have.

Probably quicker than trying to discuss with them.

Sounds like most of the data is accurate except the final payment that deals with employment, a good guess and marked estimate will do on the IHT forms.

If mum is the sole beneficiary there will be no IHT, HMRC probably won't care anyway and you will have the docs needed for transferable nil rate band should that be needed later.

Yorkshireman99

proximacentauri wrote: »

Hey guys, usually I post in the money saver forums however as I am helping my mother administer the estate of my late stepfather who sadly passed away 6 weeks ago, its not a huge estate but should see my mum through her retirement. I have hit a bit of a wall in terms of trying to apply for Probate. I am helping my mum as an administrator, but effectively I am doing most of the work for her as she is not in a good state to be honest.

So basically, I have contacted all of my stepdads accounts and contacted all the payees and debtors, pretty much everyone owing any benefits or entitlements to my stepdad's estate have already been in touch in the last few weeks or have already settled up with my mum who is surviving spouse.

All except one. And they are the ones who owe the most to the estate. The only payees who have not been very helpful so far are his workplace who owe the estate a 'death in service' benefit which he had enrolled in as part of his pension (a 4x salary scheme) and my mum was named as beneficiary. The company also owe my stepdad's estate his final salary as well as his expenses leading up until his sudden death (heart attack).

So they are insisting on a Grant of Probate before providing any documents or paying any monies due the estate. Everyone else accepted my mum's marriage certificate. The company claim they need the Grant of Probate for 'compliance' however we think they are blocking us.

As 6 weeks have now passed since they were notified and they have just recently asked for the Grant of Probate after all this time, we called the death in service insurers (Zurich) and they told us that the claim for my stepdad had been activated by the company but they were waiting on the company to submit documentation to have the claim processed. Nothing can be done to activate the claim until those docs had been submitted by the company.

So my mum is sitting in limbo waiting for the company to submit the documentation, a final settlement figure cant even be established and my mum cannot submit the Inheritance form and therefore cannot apply for a Grant of Probate - and therefore the company are sitting as a blocker because they want the Grant of Probate - but they are blocking the whole process.

Any advice? We were hoping to do Probate ourselves but seem to hit upon a unmovable object in the form of my late stepdads employers. I am thinking of now advising my mum to hire a lawyer but it really isn't fair that lawyers fees have to come off the estate (which isn't really that big).

Advice?

Applying for probate should be easy for you as you have already done all the groundwork. The death in service benefit does not form part of the estate so probate is not required. You need to press them but in the meantime get on with probate.

proximacentauri

Ok - wow - I had no idea. So that is very good news for my mum. No death in service benefit need be added to the inheritance forms. Which means we can jump straight into the applications.
Ok thank you everyone. One less thing to worry about.

SevenOfNine

DiS was paid out before probate was granted to the nominated beneficiary (his sibling). The employers advised in writing that this fell outside the scope of IHT.

As next of kin we were asked if we had anything we wanted the trustees to take into account before payment was made given that the nomination form had been signed 3 years previously. The answer being no, we approved of the nomination choice, a cheque was sent extremely promptly.

Probate was required prior to the salary being paid though (which included accrued holiday pay), a tax rebate also arrived later from HMRC. TBH we did not include or allow for any of that on the tax forms, below the threshold anyway (without the DiS), & it simply hadn't occurred to us.

proximacentauri

Its been 3 months or so since my stepfather passed and we applied for probate 3 weeks ago.
As advised here we did not include the DiS in the forms. The pension was included however and finally came through from the pension holder after a couple months of waiting, it held up the probate application but now its all been applied for and we are just waiting on a Grant. Once we get the Grant we can chase up the final salary payment outstanding so my mum's finances will then be all squared away.
Appreciate the advice folks.