Zipcar PCN - 75 days after alleged offence

bobbybobbo

Zipcar replied and have said that since they took so long to notify me they are now just going to pay it and charge me and won't transfer liability. If I want to appeal I have to appeal to Zipcar!

Unfortunately due to an unusual large volume of PCNs we received there was in fact a delay in the processing of this particular issue. This however does not negate the validity of this PCN or your liability.

Regarding your query regarding the transferring of liability to yourself, We always prefer to transfer liability, so you can either appeal the notice or pay it directly to the issuing authority, but it is ultimately up to the issuing body's wishes how we proceed. Unfortunately, on this occasion it was simply not possible to transfer liability of this ticket to yourself hence why we must process it internally.

In doing so, we as the registered keeper of the vehicle will be the point of contact between yourself and the issuing authority.

Regarding your query regarding appealing this issue, it does state in the member contract that you accepted when joining our services that Zipcar holds the right to appeal or not any PCN. Please read the paragraph below which is stated in the above mentioned contract:

Member contract - Member Contract
rules of vehicle use
11.
Traffic Violations

11.4
Where a violation, incurred during the Member's reservation period or after it as a result of failure to adhere to parking regulations, is sent directly to Zipcar, Zipcar will either pay the penalty/fee on behalf of the Member and then add the penalty/fee to the Member's account or Zipcar may, if permitted by the authority issuing the violation, transfer liability for the penalty/fee notice to the Member and the Member will then be wholly responsible for all correspondence with the appropriate authority and any penalties/fees due. Zipcar will always inform a Member which one of these two courses of action it has taken, and will endeavour to provide notice to Members before it pays any penalties/fees attributable to them. Once paid by Zipcar, it may not be possible for the Member to challenge the penalty/fee. The right to appeal, or transfer liability, on any traffic or parking charge issued by any authority or body belongs to Zipcar and will be at Zipcar's absolute discretion
. In the case of speeding notices or traffic violations, Zipcar is obliged by law to pass on the offending Member's details to the police who will then contact the Member directly.

Should you wish to appeal this PCN please do feel free to reply to this email with your appeal and we will consider it and inform you of its validity.

I understand that this is a frustrating situation, but we need you to remember that PCNs are not issued by Zipcar, but by the local authority. We try to accommodate our members as best we can, but we, as a company need to recover the costs of these fines from the members responsible.

nosferatu1001

Rspond back

State there was no "issuing authority", just a private company, and these are not fines or penalties.
They have no authority to pay a private invoice on your behalf due to a failure in their own internal processes.
Shoudl they pay, it is none of your concern and you will charge back, using the above email in support, any attempt to do so. I understand this may be frustrating for you, but you need to remember that you are not responsible for ZIpcar not understanding the difference between an Authority, local or otherwise, and a private company invoice, and failing to have terms and conditions that reflect this difference.

You shoudl recover this from your legal departments budget, as they have failed such a basic concept.

bobbybobbo

Thanks for your help nosferatu. I will certainly be replying with your points.

Also I looked through the BVRLA MoU (http://www.siteguru.co.uk/mse/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf) of which both Zipcar and Avis are members. In particular interest is section 4.3.4:

4.3.4 If the BVRLA member fails to repsond to the Notice to Keeper issued by the BPA member within the 28 days specified in the POFA legislation, then unless the Notice to Keeper has not been received by the BVRLA member, they will accpet liability for the parking charge and that they may be pursued for payment

To me this appears to be a slam dunk, but I get the feeling that y'all won't agree? Will they just come back to their T&Cs?

Coupon-mad

Looks like a slam dunk - send that to them!

And tell them if they keep trying to pass the buck to you, when the failure to transfer liability in time is very clearly due to their negligence (and remains their problem and going forward, purely their liability now), you require them to confirm that their complaints process has been exhausted and you will then involve the ADR provided by the BVRLA and will ask them to investigate.

And finish by saying you've already instructed your card provider to return any payment now requested by Zipcar, since you have a clear papertrail of Zipcar's failure to act in accordance with the POFA provisions and that this PCN remains their liability now.

bobbybobbo

So, coming back to this, I replied to Zipcar with the points given by nosferatu and the point made by myself regarding the BVRLA MoU. Thanks for your input too, Coupon-mad, but I had already replied before seeing your post.

Zipcar said they were going to put the case on hold to investigate further. they just replied:

We have reached out to the BVRLA and they have confirmed that Zipcar need to make payment of this PCN but that we can then pursue the correct at fault member and charge the account for the PCN.

Should you wish to send us an appeal in which it explains that you are not liable for this PCN we will investigate the issue and if needed we will cover the costs of the PCN.

Unfortunately if you are liable for the PCN we will need to pay it and add the charges to your account.

I understand this is not an easy situation but Zipcar cannot be held liable for a PCN if a member failed to adhere to our rules and information.

Please do send us your appeal as soon as possible and before Monday the 28/01/2019 and we will be happy to review the situation.

So not only has their negligence robbed my opportunity to appeal directly with the PPC, but now the charge is £140 instead of the 'discounted rate' the PPC would have initially offered of £60. This is because the letter they received was from debt collectors so the discount was no longer valid (£100), plus TNC's admin fee (£25), plus Zipcar's admin fee (£15). This is really unjust in my opinion.

nosferatu1001

Youre still missing that
ZipCars Ts and Cs do not cover private parking invoices!

So it doesnt matter what they say
You tell them:

Zipcar need to understand that I (bobbybobbo) cannot be held liable for a private parking charge, because the contract I signed does not give Zipcar the right to recover any charges as a result. I have not failed to adhere to any of your rules, and as you have made an allegation of such, I require you to fully explain how your "rules and information" have not been adhered to.
I will not be sending an appeal, because I have no liability in this matter, and you have been warned to not attempt to recover any charge from my aco!!!!, because it wil lbe charged back at your expense.

Please confirm I have now ehasuted your complaints procedure, so I can escalate to the BVRLA. I require a response within 5 days.

bobbybobbo

I did mention all of that as per your initial advice. They just chose to ignore it. I should just repeat again?

bobbybobbo

For reference, my last email to them:

I will repeat that the BVRLA, of which both Zipcar and Avis are members, clearly states that liability should be transferred to the hirer/customer within the 28 day period. You can find a link to the BVRLA MoU here: http://www.siteguru.co.uk/mse/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf

Please pay close attention to Paragraph 4 and in particular paragraph 4.3.4:

4.3.4 If the BVRLA member fails to respond to the Notice to Keeper issued by the BPA member within the 28 days specified in the POFA legislation, then unless the Notice to Keeper has not been received by the BVRLA member, they will accept liability for the parking charge and that they may be pursued for payment.

Please note that this is also spelled out in POFA 2012, which is UK law and trumps your T&Cs. I'm sorry that you incurred delays due to a large number of PCNs over the Christmas period, but this is now you're matter to deal with.

Additionally your T&Cs are grossly inadequate with respect to this matter. There was no "issuing authority". TNC Parking Services and P4Parking (UK) Ltd are just private companies and these are not fines or penalties. They are invoices. This is a simple legal fact and your T&Cs do not address this.

You have no authority to pay a private invoice on my behalf due to a failure in your own internal processes. Should you pay, it is none of my concern and I will charge back, using the above emails in support, any attempt to pass the charge onto us.

I am not responsible for ZIpcar not understanding the difference between an Authority, local or otherwise, and a private company invoice, and failing to have terms and conditions that reflect this difference. You should recover this from your legal departments budget, as they have failed such a basic concept.

Your suggestion that I should appeal this PCN directly with you is baffling. Private charges are based on contract law and allege that the driver breached a contractual term implicitly agreed upon between the private parking company (i.e. P4Parking (UK) Ltd) and the driver. This is a matter that I can only get into with the private company making the allegations. Again, as your delays have robbed me of this right, it is now solely your liability.

Le_Kirk

bobbybobbo wrote: »

I did mention all of that as per your initial advice. They just chose to ignore it. I should just repeat again?

Please confirm I have now ehasuted your complaints procedure, so I can escalate to the BVRLA. I require a response within 5 days.

Looks like you can escalate as you have exhausted the complaints procedure.

nosferatu1001

Bobby - you didnt quite state what I stated, however. My version above succinctly states your contract withthem does not give them the right to hold you liable for private parking charges. The email you sent heavily implies it, but misses a summary. My fault, but you also didnt give us a draft to critique first, so we can catch errors like that

I suggest sending again, purely to get this across, and to tell them you will not be appealing to ZIpcar because this is not your concern. It also confirms that you have exhausted their complaints procedure.