Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

adindas

Herzlos wrote: »

I'll try again. One valid argument for Brexit is that the UK having free movement with the EU hurts Eastern Europe, I can agree with that (less so the nonsense about African farmers we used to get).

Who said that ? it is utter tosh. With free movement they could jump through the hoop to avoid a fierce competition in the international labour market.

You just need to see before joining the EU where they were chased by the police for working illegally in Western Europe. Did people want to see that happen again ?

And Anyway you will not be able to avoid an international competition. Smart people, people who could compete globally are free to move and it is unavoidable consequences of globalisation. If you do not want them to immigrate then you will need to create an environment where these people want to stay.

You will get the best people if you do not prioritise / limit people to the EU countries.

Also as previously said, Free movement in the EU while you get the best people, good people from EU countries, you also get movement of bad people, criminals, romanian/bulgarian gypsies, people who can not compete in their own countries are free to move. You will get a better result if you maintain control to screen who you want who you do not want.

Not to mention Eastern Europe benefit the most from EU development funding.

mayonnaise

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

All the evidence shows that free movement is a disaster for countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia and Latvia....

OK, let's look at Latvia in the EU.
A comparison between 2004 when it joined and 2014.
http://providus.lv/article_files/2721/original/Latvia_in_the_EU_10_years_brief.pdf?1415022500
https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/latvia

GDP per capita? Tripled
Exports? Tripled
Marked improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, security, productivity, etc...
What a disaster.

goral

adindas

I still waiting for example which opportunity you'll have after Brexit and which you don't have now.
Did you fint one?


Free movement - is not just for E. European. Is for everybody in EU included British citizens.
You can live, work, setup business, in all EU country and you have the same rights as people from this country. You can use they health system, schools, university ect. Every thong is (was?) under your feet. You can apply for EU grand for you private business in UK as well.
All this opportunities will be finish.


Everybody who works legally doesn't lower the rates. Included immigrants.
The government decides on the minimum rate, not imigrants.

British landlords, they bought houses so that they could be rented to immigrants, thanks to which the immigrants repaid their mortgage.

Brexit supporter can't see this. Because brexit is new religion!
And like any religion, you not ask question, you just belie in dogmat like "make brexit dane".

Thrugelmir

Sailtheworld wrote: »

The brexiteers around here are oh so altruistic don't you know?

Seems if some people are still stuck in the same old rut.

mayonnaise

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Seems if some people are still stuck in the same old rut.

The truth never expires.

adindas

goral wrote: »

adindas

I still waiting for example which opportunity you'll have after Brexit and which you don't have now.
Did you fint one?

I did answer you in the previous post. It is a personal question and
I said I do not answer personal question which is irrelevant to brexit.

But if you are asking about opportunity for the people, business in the UK after Brexit then:
Airbus set to expand in Britain after Brexit as Boris Johnson's withdrawal bill sweeps away uncertainty

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-7870403/Airbus-set-expand-Britain-Brexit.html

It is entirely different to what was said before the recent GE.

The UK Fishing industry booming if the UK is to reclaim the UK water after Brexit.

Opportunity to trade directly with other countries. Keep in mind the future of the favourable global market lie in Asia, not EU. With a better link, better communication, good transportation link, lower cost of freight the things which could not be done previously has started to become more doable.

Not to mention there is suddenly money available which was used to subsidize the poor EU countries, EU farmers is now available to boost the economy, infrastructure.

Fran_Klee

mayonnaise wrote: »

OK, let's look at Latvia in the EU.
A comparison between 2004 when it joined and 2014.
http://providus.lv/article_files/2721/original/Latvia_in_the_EU_10_years_brief.pdf?1415022500
https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/latvia

GDP per capita? Tripled
Exports? Tripled
Marked improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, security, productivity, etc...
What a disaster.

Population 2004 of 2.28 million vs population 2020 of 1.85 million - THAT is your "disaster" because at this rate Latvia will have a population of zero by the next turn of the century.
What happened to all these Latvians?
Well, over 100,000 of them came to the UK for a start.
The link helps explain why.
https://www.politico.eu/article/latvia-a-disappearing-nation-migration-population-decline/


You have to laugh at mayo's desperate attempt to "big up" the improvements; double nothing is still nothing.
Unless of course Mayo is suggesting that a rapid decline in UK population would likewise see "GDP per capita? Tripled
Exports? Tripled. Marked improvements in healthcare, education, welfare, security, productivity, etc..." so long as the EU pump in billions per year like they have with Latvia? :whistle:

gfplux

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Well said.

Should point out that you are replying to an ex-pat that never returns home ...........

I am not an ex-pat. I am an emigrant from Britain and an immigrant in my new country.

I wonder what pointing out that I am an immigrant says about you.

Thrugelmir

Ageing and eventually declining populations for the Western world are well documented. Burden on Governments to provide pensions, healthcare etc is going to be a major challenge.

gfplux

lisyloo wrote: »

I just don’t agree that things are terrible especially on a global scale. Yes sure we all want it to be better and there are some issues. There is always going to be demand for more, always.

Infrastructure - I’m a big critic of our trains in this country. But roads/parking - have you been to Paris, Spain, Manilla, Bangalore? (I once booked a hotel just outside the airport in manilla and was told we’d need to allow 3 hours, it was hardly worth the “overnight” in the end). Our roads are pretty good and our congestion is not as terrible as some other places. We have 6 airports around London. Schools need more money for buildings. I think we could have planned better with hindsight but we live in a good country. I met a blind man recently who came to England because he could not negotiate the streets safely in his home country (he’d had an accident with an exposed scafffolding pole). Wheelchairs users and the disabled have issues but have it far better than people in Africa and India.

NHS - you hear a lot of stories, but people with cancer and auto immune conditions get fabulous care all for free. There are a lot of successes and the news tends to concentrate on the failures. I’m not against accountability, sure we should have that but we should also have balance and what is available is frankly fabulous. I’ve had smear test, mammograms, vaccinations, health checks all to prevent me getting ill.

Police and prisons - yes there are issues but compare with other countries e.g. Cyprus, Iran. In London we have amazing responses to atrocities within minutes and a lot of physical barriers put up. Again there is a need to balance the good news with the bad. Our country is very safe and if you into custody you won’t be beaten or raped by the staff which happens in many other countries.

Public transport is amazing in London. Yes it’s not so good outside major cities but again I’m asking for balance. I am myself a big critic of the trains, but don’t ignore the good bits of what we have, it transport millions into London every day in relative safety have you seen Indian trains with people hanging onto the roof? Clearly we wouldn’t want that but let’s have some balance.

Education - foreign students pay a fortune to come here. Universities are full with a high proportion of the population getting further education. Again there’s issue but again we need balance.

I think we live in a fabulous country and can generally go about our business and live our lives free from persecution.
If it wasn’t great was would people spend lots of money to come here and at the other end of the spectrum take huge risks with their lives?

Anyone born here is incredibly lucky even if they are at the lower part of the income scale.

You are mostly correct it is not as bad as countries like North Korea.

However excepting that things are poor rather than demanding better is perhaps why things don’t get better.