Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

fewgroats

Course we're deranged! We're fed up with it. Do it or do nothing, only stop going on about it!

Sailtheworld

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

My nomination for the most absurd post of the year. Well done.

It doesn't surprise me that as the veil of populism drops to reveal its true self there are plenty of people willing to turn the other way.

Sailtheworld

Tromking wrote: »

They see themselves as the intelligent ones as well.

Well if you take educational qualifications as a proxy for intelligence there would be something in that.

Conina

Herzlos wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44446632

I'm still waiting for evidence of Banks saying leave only won because they lied - you haven't given any yet and your link does not say that either.

Like you say:

Herzlos wrote: »

Lies should be corrected on both sides.

phillw

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

My nomination for the most absurd post of the year. Well done.

I nominate you.

Conina wrote: »

I'm still waiting for evidence of Banks saying leave only won because they lied - you haven't given any yet and your link does not say that either.

He said it was important to lie to people to win & it was their intention to lie to win.

If what you're saying is that his intentional lies didn't make a difference, then what did people vote to leave the EU for?

I think it's ludicrous to say that nobody was convinced by his intentional lies, it would make all of the leave voters racist.

Malthusian

Herzlos wrote: »

Even Banks (major funder of Leave.EU admits they only won due to lying).

Herzlos_quoting_Banks wrote: »

"We were not above using alternative methods to punch home our message or lead people up the garden path if we had to."

There's no admission that Leave only won due to "leading people up the garden path", and "leading someone up the garden path" is not lying. You can mislead by lying but you can also mislead by selectively presenting the truth. But you posted a link so I guess that means you win the Internet.

Selectively presenting the truth is fair game in any democratic contest. If selectively presenting the truth resulted in an election win being annulled, every election would be annulled and we would live in a dictatorship. In a democracy one side selectively presents their version of the truth and the other side selectively presents an opposite version, and the voters choose a balance between the two which just about approximates to reality.

But this will fall on deaf ears of Remainers, as ending democracy is the endgame. They believe democracy is invalid as the masses are too stupid to be given power, and giving it to them obstructs grand political projects like the EU.

Reality triumphed over the lies about Emergency Budgets, tax rises, real swingeing cuts, instant stockmarket crash and recession, as reality inconveniently tends to do.

phillw

Malthusian wrote: »

and "leading someone up the garden path" is not lying.

It is, even if it's only a half truth. The half is absolutely important when making a decision where you need to weigh all the pros and cons.

Every single time anyone pointed out their half lie it then wasn't able to be properly debated because it got labeled as project fear.

Leave.EU "Jump into the lion enclosure at a zoo, you'll get a real close up view of a lion but you're perfectly safe".

Remain "No, you'll probably be attacked by the lion".

Leave.EU "That's just Project Fear, look at the cute cuddly lion"

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lead--up--the--garden--path

"lead up/down the garden path, to deceive or mislead in an enticing way; lead on; delude:
The voters had been led up the garden path too often to take a candidate's promises seriously."

The impressive thing is he tricked you all and you still defend him after he admitted tricking you, because you are so indoctrinated.

Malthusian wrote: »

Reality triumphed

What do you mean? You barely won a popularity contest that was swung by a confessed liar & someone who has been sacked for lying but never admits his lies (who is now PM). Our PM has as little sense of reality as his followers. He is just saying what you want to hear, you become poorer every time he opens his mouth.

We're only in a relatively stable decline at the moment because companies have been promised brexit in name only, that we'd still have a free trade agreement etc. Even Boris said until recently it was a million to one possibility, the decline is likely to accelerate. The majority are still holding on for October 31st before pulling the plug on the UK.

THAT is reality.

mayonnaise

Theophile wrote: »

His neighbour to the east has them sitting on the opposition benches.


Here they form the government.

My nomination for the most brilliant post of the year.

It always amuses me how our resident europhobes shake their little fingers in condemnation at the Continental far-right like AfD, a populist, euro-sceptic, anti-immigration party...

...while fully endorsing these very same policies here in the UK.

Herzlos

Malthusian wrote: »

There's no admission that Leave only won due to "leading people up the garden path", and "leading someone up the garden path" is not lying. You can mislead by lying but you can also mislead by selectively presenting the truth. But you posted a link so I guess that means you win the Internet.

True, I was sure he explicitly admitted they only won due to lying, but it seems I can only find references to him knowingly lying.

Selectively presenting the truth is fair game in any democratic contest.

Sure, but that's not what happened, there was no truth in a lot of the Leave.EU claims. None. That's lying and should invalidate the result.

But this will fall on deaf ears of Remainers, as ending democracy is the endgame.

I can't get my head around statements like this, since it only seems to be Leavers who want to suspend democracy to get their way (allowing a PM to make a brexit deal without parliamentary approval, removal of any pro-EU MPs, suspending Parliament so they can't vote against something).
All leave want is actual democracy, and a confirmatory check that we actually want what's about to happen before it's too late.

cogito

mayonnaise wrote: »

My nomination for the most brilliant post of the year.

It always amuses me how our resident europhobes shake their little fingers in condemnation at the Continental far-right like AfD, a populist, euro-sceptic, anti-immigration party...

...while fully endorsing these very same policies here in the UK.

Except that the UK government is neither populist nor anti immigration. You see - you’re at it again.

Incidentally, you also confuse EU-phobia with Europhobia. They are not the same thing.