Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Filo25

melanzana wrote: »

If Johnson becomes PM, I reckon he will agree to a NI only backstop with no time limit. The DUP will have a conniption, but there may be others in HOC who can see the benefits/logic of this approach and may back the Government.

That could move things on significantly, and Johnson will have "done something different" so the EU will agree to another extension, and the backstop will not be so contentious as it will only involve NI, who in general would breath a sigh of relief if it were to happen.

Now let me tell you as an NI born, the DUP will go nuts, but no one cares about them. Farmers, business, the vast majority of the population on NI just want to things to continue as they are. NI voted to remain.

ROI will be happy about it too.

Could be interesting.

If he goes down that path the DUP will vote against the government in a confidence vote, they have backed themselves into a corner on that one.

DUP voters are famously loyal but any kind of perceived "sellout" regarding the union is the one thing they aren't likely to be willing to accept, especially given the DUP themselves have spent so long saying it is a sellout of the union

melanzana

Filo25 wrote: »

If he goes down that path the DUP will vote against the government in a confidence vote, they have backed themselves into a corner on that one.

So the alternative is what?

Anyway I like to think in a dream like state, that other MPs with brains outside of the Tories might just back this up, well those with some intelligence and independence of thought and analysis. DUP is toast then.

They already have a 1Billion bribe. No more now. They are a despicable bunch who do not recognise that NI voted remain, and the GFA is something they never supported either. They should be kicked to the kerb IMO. They are supporting no one other than themselves. They have been VERY quiet of late also.

Maybe the investigation into the "Cash for Ash" scandal is imminent or something. look it up.

On the other hand if Sinn Fein had taken their seats in Westminster it would have negated the pull that DUP have. But that's another debate. No time for SF either from me.

There are alternatives, but times come rocking slowly. It will all change in time.

LHW99

Filo25 wrote: »

If he goes down that path the DUP will vote against the government in a confidence vote, they have backed themselves into a corner on that one.

DUP voters are famously loyal but any kind of perceived "sellout" regarding the union is the one thing they aren't likely to be willing to accept, especially given the DUP themselves have spent so long saying it is a sellout of the union

So will this be timetabled for around October 20th? Government falls, Parliament dissolved and ...........?

Herzlos

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Cogito, will you admit you were wrong on Tusk and Juncker? Will you admit you wrote a load of patently false stuff, and will you apologise for it? Yes? No? Why?

He won't, that's not the first time he's claimed that Tusk and Juncker (or the EU in general) is undemocratic. He's been corrected many many times and just goes quiet for a while before making the same false claims.

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

He won't, that's not the first time he's claimed that Tusk and Juncker (or the EU in general) is undemocratic. He's been corrected many many times and just goes quiet for a while before making the same false claims.

It depends on your personal opinion of what democracy is.
Tusk and Juncker obviously didn’t just rock up to Brussels and assume their positions, neither however where they elected directly by the people of Europe. You only have to witness the current shenanigans as regards Junckers replacement to realise that Brussels is not the gold standard in the democracy stakes, and before you mention it, the House of Lords is a democratic abomination as well.

cogito

I said (to paraphrase) that the people don't elect The new Commission. I said that the people did not elect Tusk and Juncker. I wasn’t the one who brought the UK into the argument.

All of this is true but it doesn’t stop remainers screaming fake news.

SouthLondonUser

Commissioners are like ministers. The people do not elect EU Commissioners directly just like they do not elect British ministers.
The fact that British Ministers tend to be MPs does not change the fact that the electorate has no say in who gets to be minister of what.

So, are both indirect appointments a democratic aberration? Or is indirect democracy OK here but not OK in the EU?

Tromking

melanzana wrote: »

Certain Exiteers just do not care what happens to our nation. Cult it is now.

I don’t think you can pin that accusation on Leave voters. Brexit if its anything is the extraction of the U.K. from an organisation that has the stated aim of becoming a supranational entity.
Therefore it’s a bit rich for Remainers to accuse others of destroying the Union when continued membership of the EU by definition means the U.K. is quietly subsumed into a political Union with the rest of the EU.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

It depends on your personal opinion of what democracy is.

No more than relying on your personal opinion of gravity to determine how something will fall. Democracy is well defined.

We live in a representative democracy - we directly elect people who vote on our behalf. Those people decide who become cabinet members, presidents etc. Both the UK and EU work in the same way, except we also have a house of unelected peers, so to claim the EU is less democratic than the UK doesn't hold up to scrutiny. What people seem to mean by that is that the EU didn't let us boss everyone around and they collective made a decision we didn't like.

The people did elect these roles- indirectly. So I'm not sure what cogitos point is meant to be.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

I don’t think you can pin that accusation on Leave voters. Brexit if its anything is the extraction of the U.K. from an organisation that has the stated aim of becoming a supranational entity.
Therefore it’s a bit rich for Remainers to accuse others of destroying the Union when continued membership of the EU by definition means the U.K. is quietly subsumed into a political Union with the rest of the EU.

What's wrong with supranational entities anyway?
Brexit seems to be all about immigration, and burning bridges to keep those foreigners out even though we need them.