Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

lisyloo

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

That is precisely why I feel that if voting was mandatory it would have to be with ID. Asking someone to impersonate you would be fraud.

However, there is already a way of asking someone to vote for you without impersonating you, maybe you don't know about proxy votes.

My MIL has lost mental capacity and cannot hold a pen due to arthritis. She is currently entitled to a vote.
I wonder what those who promote compulsory voting think should be done in the case of those who
Have lost mental capacity
And/or
Are unable to physically sign a postal vote or turn up to a polling station

I don’t think an LPA or COP would cover as these are designed for property, finance, health and welfare,

Herzlos

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

I very much doubt that remainers understand it either. They just pretend that they do and claim that it will be a disaster.

Have you seen any prominent Leaver be asked a question about WTO, even basics like "does anyone else trade with the EU on WTO terms" and be able to actually answer it?


I don't expect everyone to have a perfect understanding of it, but I expect those that are campaigning to use it to have at least read the Wikipedia page. I know enough about it to know that it's pretty burdensome and a nightmare to deal with.



Because lets face it, if the WTO was a great way to trade, countries wouldn't be spending so much effort forming trade deals would they?

Arklight

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm saying that a brexit referendum would need to ask just about Brexit, something like:
Do you want to:
Leave the EU with no deal.
Leave the EU with Mays deal.
Remain in the EU.


Without confusing this with any other issues/politics. A generation election, local election or EU election is done using a myriad of factors (as it should), but those other factors mean we can't tell what it means regarding Brexit.

The problem with this is that it needs a 4th question:

"Have you formed an opinion on these things based on assessing any kind of facts whatsoever?"

And that's the substance of why there shouldn't be any more plebiscites on this issue. The majority of the plebs will vote based on prejudice not reason, or to effect a different kind of political change that has nothing to do with the actual referendum.

A mature political choice would be to just kill the issue as an advisory referendum gone wrong, further poisoned by two useless Tory Prime Ministers, and make it a matter for a future GE.

People can vote for the Brexit Party, or whatever Blackshirt movement Farage is starting at the time as an actual government. Or they can vote for a proper government that isn't about to mutilate the UK by doing something as self defeating as taking us out of Europe.

When the UK exiting Europe was a matter for a GE, the British people returned 1 UKIP MP.

Cakeguts

Anyone apart from me wondering if Italy will have a referendum to leave the EU? France is not far behind.

Arklight

Cakeguts wrote: »

Anyone apart from me wondering if Italy will have a referendum to leave the EU? France is not far behind.

Italy knows what side Italy's bread is buttered.

mayonnaise

Cakeguts wrote: »

Anyone apart from me wondering if Italy will have a referendum to leave the EU? France is not far behind.

No, just you.

Support for EU membership above 80% in most member states amid Brexit mess

Italy was close behind as the next most Eurosceptic country, with 72 per cent Remain and 28 per cent Leave.

Second most Eurosceptic country in the EU, 72 per cent Remain. Read and weep, Europhobes.

There will be no referendum to Leave the EU in any EU country. Our Brexit debacle has seen to that.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html

shaggydoo

Theophile wrote: »

17,410,742 betrayed leave voters, so they said...
5,248,533 brexit party voters.


Brexit died last Thursday.

Good point that.....


More people signed the Revoke petition!

shaggydoo

Moby wrote: »

The tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt has just said leaving with no deal would be a disaster. Amber Rudd, David Gauke, Mat Hancock, Rory Stewart, Michael Gove have said the same in recent days. Also the Chancellor hinted yesterday that he could not support his own party towards a 'no deal' exit. There are a majority of tory MPs against a 'no deal' exit. The tories know a 'no deal' exit will split their party. One thing you can always say about the tories they have an instinct for self preservation. That is why a 'no deal' exit is unlikely despite what Boris says.

I would agree with you except I remember the absolute misery caused by Margaret Thatcher and then John Major. In 1992 during the ERM crisis many people thousands of people lost their homes and their jobs, misery caused by the Tories. So I could see Tories going for a no deal Brexit.


People have got to stop voting Tory. It always ends the same way.

shaggydoo

Herzlos wrote: »

Have you seen any prominent Leaver be asked a question about WTO, even basics like "does anyone else trade with the EU on WTO terms" and be able to actually answer it?


I don't expect everyone to have a perfect understanding of it, but I expect those that are campaigning to use it to have at least read the Wikipedia page. I know enough about it to know that it's pretty burdensome and a nightmare to deal with.



Because lets face it, if the WTO was a great way to trade, countries wouldn't be spending so much effort forming trade deals would they?

Reality Check: Does the UK trade with 'the rest of world' on WTO rules?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41859691

Reality Check verdict:

This is wrong. With regard to tariffs, the UK trades with 24 countries and territories under WTO rules alone. With 68 others it has, as part of the EU, free trade agreements, either fully or partly in place, which all enable trade on better terms.

Even with those 24, the EU has a variety of arrangements which make trade easier. For example, there is an

Agreement between the EU and the US

about the language which can be used by wine exporters on their bottles.

Does any other country trade on WTO rules alone?

If you look at the WTO database which lists all regional trade agreements, there is nothing for Mauritania. That's led some to suggest Mauritania is the only member to trade solely on WTO rules.
However, according to the WTO, Mauritania has joined the Economic Community of West African States, and it has preferential trade arrangements with some 20 WTO members.
There are some countries which aren't WTO members, including Algeria, Serbia and North Korea, but the WTO says all of its members have some sort of bilateral or regional trade agreement in place.

shaggydoo

Tory MP and Brexiteer Andrea Jenkyns has been left red-faced after she was asked to answer what should have been a simple question about WTO rules during an appearance on BBC Politics Live.

The 44-year-old Conservative who is the MP for Morley and Outwood is a member of the prominent Eurosceptic organisation Leave Means Leave has been a strong critic of Theresa May's EU withdrawal deal and quit her junior position in the cabinet over the issue back in May 2018.

As an advocate of the so-called WTO rules, Jenkyns was asked by host Jo Coburn to name other countries that operated purely on those trading rules. Her answer wasn't exactly clear or right.

Errm...I obviously need to look further into that. Why is this about trading with the EU?
For me, I see a global Britain. Unlike remainers, my borders are not the EU.
I see beyond that and for a global Britain for trading.

Jenkyns was then told by Coburn that the only countries that trade with the EU purely on that basis are Cuba, Venezuela, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia and North Korea.

This embarrassing moment for the Brexiteer is hardly the first time someone has failed to competently explain WTO rules and many Twitter users are sharing their thoughts and criticisms.

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-wto-rules-andrea-jenkyns-bbc-politics-live-no-deal-8923641