Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

Thrugelmir

cogito wrote: »

I don't have to explain anything. What part of 'ever closer union' don't you understand.

People appear to have little time for Macron's ideas. Not least his own electorate.

SouthLondonUser

cogito wrote: »

I don't have to explain anything. What part of 'ever closer union' don't you understand.

And, yes. We have been over this before many times.

This is really 2 points, so let's tackle them one by one:

1) Regardless of your opinion on status quo vs ever closer union, at least you agree:

• that voting remain meant one thing and one thing only
• that there was no possible ambiguity
• that the remain camp wasn't split on what remain would have meant, and
• that, had we voted remain, the outcome would have been clear and the country would not have agonised for years stuck in a limbo and without being able to make up its mind on what 'remain' would have meant , while
• leave has always meant many different, incompatible things, from hard, no-deal Brexit to the delusional have-your-cake-and-eat-it vision of same benefits, fewer obligations
• and that therefore the real majority was to remain, since the choice was not binary at all?

All of this is really self-evident, but it is worth asking because Brexiters have been shown to have issues with self-evident banalities...

2) "Ever closer union" is an expression ALREADY in use in European treaties. For example:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2012:326:FULL:EN:PDF#page=18
to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in
which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of
subsidiarity,

This is very different from the political union Brexiters fear so much. How will the EU change in 10 years? I don't know. No one does. But that's a different point!

For someone with 'cogito' as a nickname, it doesn't seem you are doing much 'cogitare' :rotfl:

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

No it wasn't. Which is why the EU are taking steps to stop that behavior.

Struggling to find a solution that works and is agreeable. The years go by........... as has been a longstanding issue.

wintersunshine

Brexit is a massive mess....nobody can deny that.

wintersunshine

And I've reached the conclusion that the majority of Tory MPs (because they are sane) don't actually believe in Brexit- they just pretend they do.

....as do Labour MPs...

phillw

Tromking wrote: »

A post Brexit U.K. tax haven is not a given

The UK government disagrees with you.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Struggling to find a solution that works and is agreeable. The years go by........... as has been a longstanding issue.

Sure, things improve slowly as the EU is democratic.

movilogo

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/15/majority-of-europeans-expect-end-of-eu-within-20-years

from a remain rag

Tromking

movilogo wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/15/majority-of-europeans-expect-end-of-eu-within-20-years

from a remain rag

There is growing evidence that Europeans are becoming less federalist in outlook when its comes to membership of the EU. The current penchant in Western democracies for voting for populist/nationalist politicians is marked. I see no sign that Brussels has a handle on the situation either.

buglawton

2.4m citizens of other EU nations now work in the UK, a rise of 100,000 compared to the final three months of 2018.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/05/14/number-eu-workers-uk-hits-record-high-unemployment-falls-lowest/

Remainer scare stories of an exodus of EU nationals from these shores, with care homes and coffee shops left staffless, might have been somewhat exaggerated, methinks. Seems the UK is as popular as ever.

At the same time:
Almost all the additional people in work since Brexit vote were British, says Government
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/21/british-people-have-filled-almost-new-jobs-uk-since-brexit-vote/

The above may seem paradoxical, but the first statistic is the trend 2 years more recent than the second. So first the British unemployed benefitted after the referendum, but more recently EU nationals appear to be returning.

All in all I'm fully confident that post-Brexit the makeup of the UK economy will stay well balanced. Hopefully with a British Parliament in control of immigration policy to cope with whatever the future brings.

cogito

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

This is really 2 points, so let's tackle them one by one:

1) Regardless of your opinion on status quo vs ever closer union, at least you agree:

• that voting remain meant one thing and one thing only
• that there was no possible ambiguity
• that the remain camp wasn't split on what remain would have meant, and
• that, had we voted remain, the outcome would have been clear and the country would not have agonised for years stuck in a limbo and without being able to make up its mind on what 'remain' would have meant , while
• leave has always meant many different, incompatible things, from hard, no-deal Brexit to the delusional have-your-cake-and-eat-it vision of same benefits, fewer obligations
• and that therefore the real majority was to remain, since the choice was not binary at all?

All of this is really self-evident, but it is worth asking because Brexiters have been shown to have issues with self-evident banalities...

2) "Ever closer union" is an expression ALREADY in use in European treaties. For example:

This is very different from the political union Brexiters fear so much. How will the EU change in 10 years? I don't know. No one does. But that's a different point!

For someone with 'cogito' as a nickname, it doesn't seem you are doing much 'cogitare' :rotfl:

Whatever you may think, I didn’t actually agree anything. So on planet SouthLondonUser, 1 +1 = 3. What exactly is it that you are using?

PS. For someone who thinks he’s a comedian, you are not at all amusing. Stick to your day job.