Moving an earth bonding cable

Risteard

VoucherMan wrote: »

I just didn't know if the cable was anything more than an additional safety feature. I've survived most of my life without electrocuting myself while I clean my teeth, and there are plenty of comments on forums about plumbers just cutting the cable when they do some work, and leaving it disconnected, with the occupants suffering nothing more than an unexpectedly high bill from the next electrician to visit the property.

Your remarks are wholly unacceptable.

Main protective bonding conductors are amongst the most important cables in your electrical installation. Without these being correctly connected your electrical installation will be unsafe.

FreeBear

VoucherMan wrote: »

Unfortunately it requires a lot of stuff moving to give suitable access. Not knowing which day the electrician will be fitting the sockets, it would mean leaving the stuff I'd moved cluttering the house for longer than I like.

Alternative plan - Route a new cable where you want it to go, and get the electrician to connect when he visits. As long as both ends are readily accessible, it reduces the issue with clutter.

Tom99

Risteard wrote: »

Main protective bonding conductors are amongst the most important cables in your electrical installation. Without these being correctly connected your electrical installation will be unsafe.

In layman's terms can you explain why?

VoucherMan

Just for the record, despite some of my comments seeming a little flippant, I am aware of the dangers of messing with electricity, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered asking in the first place. As no persuasive arguments were offered to deter me, I went ahead and moved it.
If anyone comes along asking a similar question, feel free to check back here, and if my last visit was shortly after this post, then likely I have fallen victim to my own stupidity.

Tom99 wrote: »

In layman's terms can you explain why?

Unlikely as he(?) is probably still trying to come to terms with my previous comment.

The trouble with posters like Risteard, is they are predictable. Having seen some of his previous replies over the years I was almost expecting it. It wouldn't surprise me if he gave the same (you don't know what you're doing) response to someone wanting to change a fuse in a plug. And that's just the molded type. Heaven forbid if it were an old plug that you had to use a screwdriver to open. (I did it myself the other day. Took out a 13a fuse & replaced it with a 3a.:shhh:don't tell Risteard)


As one of his fellow electricians wrote about him on another forum

phantom9 wrote:

You just cannot reason with this guy.

and that was just the start. If you want some of the poster's other views, read for yourself. https://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=%2062187&STARTPAGE=3&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Risteard wrote: »

Your remarks are wholly unacceptable.

Main protective bonding conductors are amongst the most important cables in your electrical installation. Without these being correctly connected your electrical installation will be unsafe.

Maybe if you gave reasons it would actually dissuade people occasionally. I'd be interested to know which part(s) you find unacceptable.

• I'm here, therefore I clearly haven't electrocuted myself, unless you think I'm lying, or maybe that I've fully recovered from a previous incident, except for amnesia.
• Or maybe it's my claim about comments on other forums. I can understand your frustration in that respect, as there appears to be another user desecrating your name, and possibly reputation, by saying exactly what you're objecting to.

Just wondering what other sparkys experiences are on this. ...
I would estimate that main and supplementary bonding is not in place around 20% of the time .

Risteard wrote:

I agree with you. It's a real problem. They never understand why you are checking incoming water and oil pipes. I don't suppose there's any easy answer though. It doesn't help when others try to tell them that it's a minor issue

He never replied on that thread either, despite the OP asking a direct question of him.
https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/no-bonding-how-many-times.136354/


To think, 20% of properties visited having no bonding. How many more 'unvisited' properties are still missing it? Luckily I came here first so will be getting it checked out by the electrician when they visit. If I'd used that thread as a guide I probably wouldn't have bothered.

VoucherMan

Risteard wrote: »

I already explained that Earthing and bonding are fundamental to the safe operation of any ADS (Automatic Disconnection of Supply) system

Sorry, but where I come from

It is a main protective bonding conductor. It must be installed correctly for your safety.

isn't classed as a decent explanation. A short statement at best.

Risteard wrote: »

You have once again proven how utterly incompetent you are

And yet again your arrogance makes anything you say completely irrelevant to those seeking advice.

Risteard wrote: »

Your dangerous advice is unwelcome and you should cease and desist

This could be the closest we come to agreeing, insomuch that if I gave any advice it would not be at all useful. Not least because anything I were to say would probably have been said already by many more qualified members. (of course I don't include you in that group as we all know you would just say 'you don't know what you're talking about' to the enquirer)
There is however one small flaw in your argument. I came here asking for advice. I haven't actually given any, so how it can be both dangerous and unwelcome baffles me. :rotfl:


P.S. I'm quite sure it's simply for entertainment value, but my 'Thanks count' already puts me 2 nil up against you, so it's not entirely unwelcome.:D

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There is a good diagram of how main protective bonding conductors are installed here:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/sizing-main-protective-bonding[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But not a layman's terms explanation of what risks they prevent for example:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You touch a live wire with one hand and the water pipe with the other?[/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The water pipe is touching a live wire then you touch the water pipe?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Also I do not understand why the connection need to be close to the water/gas entry pipe? At first I assumed this was to make sure of using the water/gas pipe as it enters the ground to 'earth'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If the need for these bonding conductors is something to do with a person touching a water/gas pipe then why is the best place to make the connection not near to where that risk is greatest ie the kitchen or bathroom rather than some distance away where there is a greater risk of say a length of plastic water pipe between where it enters the property and the bathroom?[/FONT]

jk0

Tom99 wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If the need for these bonding conductors is something to do with a person touching a water/gas pipe then why is the best place to make the connection not near to where that risk is greatest ie the kitchen or bathroom rather than some distance away where there is a greater risk of say a length of plastic water pipe between where it enters the property and the bathroom?[/FONT]

I believe it's in case a neighbour has a fault and somehow electrifies the gas or water main. Then you want your supplies grounded where they enter your house.

Risteard

Tom99 wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There is a good diagram of how main protective bonding conductors are installed here:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/sizing-main-protective-bonding[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But not a layman's terms explanation of what risks they prevent for example:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You touch a live wire with one hand and the water pipe with the other?[/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The water pipe is touching a live wire then you touch the water pipe?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Also I do not understand why the connection need to be close to the water/gas entry pipe? At first I assumed this was to make sure of using the water/gas pipe as it enters the ground to 'earth'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If the need for these bonding conductors is something to do with a person touching a water/gas pipe then why is the best place to make the connection not near to where that risk is greatest ie the kitchen or bathroom rather than some distance away where there is a greater risk of say a length of plastic water pipe between where it enters the property and the bathroom?[/FONT]

Because it's not an Earth. It's sole purpose is to create and maintain an equipotential zone

It is not designed to disconnect the supply in the event of a fault (that is the job of protective earthing) but to maintain all exposed and extraneous conductive parts at substantially the same potential to reduce the voltage existing between them.

Tom99

Risteard wrote: »

Because it's not an Earth. It's sole purpose is to create and maintain an equipotential zone
It is not designed to disconnect the supply in the event of a fault (that is the job of protective earthing) but to maintain all exposed and extraneous conductive parts at substantially the same potential to reduce the voltage existing between them.

But in layman's terms how does that benefit or protect me?

keith969

Tom99 wrote: »

But in layman's terms how does that benefit or protect me?

It means you are less likely to be electrocuted if there is a fault.