Received a PCN but paid the fee required... but there is a problem

Fruitcake

Baz_Warrington wrote: »

having just checked, the notice says it was issued on the 31st December, the date the driver parked the car was the 7th December and the notice was received by the keeper on the 4th January, not the 3rd as stated above

It's still over fourteen days. Even the issue date confirms it was too late before it left the scammers' office. :T

The_Deep

Can you explain what you mean by the above? I am new to all this

Please read the stickies/FAQs , you will find the answer there.

It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

Fruitcake

Going back to the signage and tariffs, you need to get your own pics ASAP to show the driver paid the correct fee.

Once you have that, you should complain to the BPA and DVLA that CEL have obtained your personal data without any justifiable reason.

Please do complain to your MP as well.

Baz_Warrington

Fruitcake... I went and took some more photos this afternoon.... There are 10 signs in total covering the site. 7 state that the charge for all day parking is £3.80 and 3 which state that the charge is £3.50, one of which is right next to the ticket machine and the other two high up on a wall...

I have photos of all of these now

beamerguy

Baz_Warrington wrote: »

Fruitcake... I went and took some more photos this afternoon.... There are 10 signs in total covering the site. 7 state that the charge for all day parking is £3.80 and 3 which state that the charge is £3.50, one of which is right next to the ticket machine and the other two high up on a wall...

I have photos of all of these now

With the dirty tricks of CEL, cannot help thinking that this is done on purpose to trap people.
The fact is £3.50 was paid following instructions next to the pay machine. It would be unreasonable to expect people to walk around the car park seeking out other signs

Guys_Dad

You could forget the signs and simply make a one-point appeal on "OUT OF TIME" There are so many on this forum already that a search would give you the wording.

However, as long as YOU DO NOT ADMIT WHO WAS DRIVING, you should read here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

specifically

9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
(c)describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable;
(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—
(i)specified in the notice; and
(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));
(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;
(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).
(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single period of parking).
(4)The notice must be given by—
(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.
(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.
(7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10.
(8)In sub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—
(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and
(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.

Fruitcake

I agree that a single point appeal regarding the too late arrival of the NTK would (should) win.

However, I believe a complaint should still be made to the BPA and DVLA (and of course the OP's MP) that the motorist paid the due amount as indicated by the sign next to the payment machine ... here is the proof.
Therefore the PPC had no justifiable reason to ask for the keeper's personal data, and no reason to issue the NTK, thus a serious breach of the DPA/GDPR has occurred.

In my opinion the above should be point 1 of a PoPLA appeal, and if upheld then the complaints should be made then, if not before.

Baz_Warrington

OK, Thanks... I, as the registered keeper of the vehicle, have sent the appeal using the template in blue as suggested. There was no admission as to who was driving, it does give the "Were you driving, Yes/No" and "Are you the keeper - Yes/No" but I clicked on proceed for the driver without clicking either box and yes to the registered keeper bit!

Should I contact the BPA and DVLA and my MP to report this? and is there a template letter anywhere for that?

Thanks again guys for the help

twhitehousescat

when you do your appeal to popla , as well as out of time , ONE clear photo showing the payment meter and the £3.50 invite in the same pic , no more pics , just that one .

Umkomaas

Should I contact the BPA and DVLA and my MP to report this? and is there a template letter anywhere for that?

You mean like a one size fits all of those? Sorry but this isn't a dial-a-template type forum.

If you want anything checking over, draft your version and hopefully someone will critique it for you before sending.

But meaningful, hard~hitting letters come from the heart; stock copies can never do that.