Received a PCN but paid the fee required... but there is a problem

Baz_Warrington

(7th December 2018)
The Driver arrived at the site at the Postern Gate in Warrington (which is clearly advertised as a pay and display) and parked up. The Driver entered the registration number of the vehicle in question into the machine as directed (having to use their phone as a torch as the lighting is rather bad in the area of the machine) paid £3.50 for the maximum time (24 hours) as shown on the signage which was next to the ticket machine, as The Driver had no idea how long they were going to be out for, and placed the ticket on clear view (and the correct way up) on the dashboard of the car.

The driver then spent a short while in the Postern Gate where they met up with some friends and then went across the road to the Wetherspoons pub.

The driver returned to the car at about 10pm and left.

It was a bit of a shock for the keeper to receive the PCN as the driver knows they paid the full amount as shown on the sign next to the machine.... Granted it was early evening on a winters night and it was a little dark due to rather poor lighting on the site, but the driver could see the sign enough to make out the maximum fee for the "All Day Parking"

However, just to put the drivers mind at rest, after the keeper received the notice, The Driver took a trip back to the car park and photographed the signage in daylight.... the one high up on a pole states that it is £3.80 for 24 hours (There is a label stuck over whatever the previous charge was) but on the sign right next to the machine, it states that the charge is £3.50 for 24 hours.

Could someone give me some advice as to how to proceed?

The reason for the charge as stated on the letter is ""Payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage"... but if the signage displays two all day parking charges on two separate signs, can this be enforced? or do they expect people to wander round reading every sign???

The notice was received by the keeper on the 3rd of January.

The company who sent the notice is a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Fruitcake

Start by editing your post to remove any and all indication about who was driving, paying or parking.

Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.
The Keeper has protections in law that The Driver does not.

Once you have finished editing, go to the sticky thread for NEWBIES that was just underneath where you clicked on the button and read up on this unregulated scam. Next, send the appeal template in blue you will find in post 1 of the NEWBIES, unaltered, from The Keeper.

The NEWBIES thread begins
Sticky: **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!**

Please also tell us when the NTK was received, but only after editing your post as it looks like The Keeper cannot be held liable (but The Driver can).

Baz_Warrington

Thanks, I have amended the wording above... I'll go and see if I can find the template now

Baz_Warrington

The notice was received by the keeper on the 3rd of January

beamerguy

Oh dear the CEL doughnutS again

So £3.50 was paid as the machine said and the other sign high up asked for £3.80. Difference being a trivial 30p ?

The mind boggles with these scamming idiots

Attention was focused on the pay machine which was £3.50, would they expect PEOPLE yo go looking for other signs ???

Appeal to CEL but don't expect much, they are just scammers who are approved by the BPA

Then this can go to POPLA and get this kicked out

This was paid as instructed by the pay machine

Fruitcake

beamerchap, The Driver paid £3.50. We wouldn't want the OP to answer in the affirmative that the person you mentioned had paid.

Fruitcake

Baz_Warrington wrote: »

The notice was received by the keeper on the 3rd of January

As I suspected. Alleged event 7th of December, NTK received 3rd of January. That means it has arrived too late to transfer liability to The Keeper.

beamerguy

Fruitcake wrote: »

beamerchap, The Driver paid £3.50. We wouldn't want the OP to answer in the affirmative that the person you mentioned had paid.

Adjusted above

Baz_Warrington

Fruitcake wrote: »

As I suspected. Alleged event 7th of December, NTK received 3rd of January. That means it has arrived too late to transfer liability to The Keeper.

Can you explain what you mean by the above? I am new to all this

Fruitcake

Baz_Warrington wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean by the above? I am new to all this

It's explained in the NEWBIES. You need to compare the NTK with the PoFA including wording and dates.

For a windscreen ticket, the NTK must arrive between day 28 and 56.

Where no windscreen ticket was issued, the NTK must arrive by day 14.

In both cases, the date of the alleged event is day zero.

You could add a one liner to the template that since the NTK has not met the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012 by arriving too late to transfer liability to The Keeper, they should cancel now and save themselves money.

This is why it is imperative that they never finds out the identity of The Driver, so be careful how you add anything to the template that is specifically designed not to do this.

Baz_Warrington

having just checked, the notice says it was issued on the 31st December, the date the driver parked the car was the 7th December and the notice was received by the keeper on the 4th January, not the 3rd as stated above