PCN for loading in disabled parking bay

Scarborough_Flyer

Hi. Would be grateful for any advice or suggestions on the following. Driver went shopping yesterday at the Range in Stockton. Car park was quiet, less than half full. Driver went into store and ended up buying two chairs. Driver then went to move car closer to store exit as they were large and heavy. In front of the store were maybe 10 disabled parking bays which were empty. Driver reversed into one, went into store and brought chairs out. Spent a bit of time putting car back seats down and loading new chairs. Driver then went back into the store briefly, returned to car a few minutes later to find PCN on the windscreen.
The time on the ticket is 8 minutes after the time on my till receipt from the Range. I am the registered keeper of the car involved, should I pay the £60 charge?
A few further points: the car park is free of charge. Driver was not aware it was 'controlled. Driver did not see any signage (although they saw afterwards that there are some high up on posts!). There was no signage adjacent to the disabled bays.
The driver appreciates that disabled bays are for disabled drivers but they were all empty and car was there for about 5 minutes. Driver saw the parking attendant when they were leaving so stopped and asked him about the ticket. He said he had watched the driver park and load the vehicle but gave them a ticket because they then went back into the store and '3 people complained to him that they shouldn't be allowed to use the disabled bay' !? He suggested that if the driver knew someone who had a blue badge they should appeal saying that they were with them and the badge had fallen off the dashboard!!
Would welcome any comments, suggestions, etc. Thanks.

Ralph-y

hi, and welcome to the forum ...


have a read of the newbie thread



https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou


to find the template for the first appeal ...


who is the PPC ?


take chairs back for a refund as they are now to dear after your parking invoice





Ralph:cool:

Coupon-mad

'3 people complained to him that I shouldn't be allowed to use the disabled bay'

He lied.

He suggested that if I knew someone who had a blue badge I should appeal saying that they were with me and the badge had fallen off the dashboard!!

What a nasty piece of work he is.

Which parking firm? You know to appeal on day 26, from the NEWBIES thread.

Sligo_Smokey

Only blue badge holders, displaying a badge, may use disabled parking bays. .......bloody simple really... and you know it!!

Ralph-y

wrong ......
Ralph:cool:

Coupon-mad

Disabled people (no blue badge) can use a disabled bay on private land.

BB is a Council on-street scheme that PPCs hijack to confuse people into thinking they can restrict private bay to BB holders. They can't, as long as a person meets the definition of disability. No permit needed at all, no BB.

Not saying the OP does meet the definition of disability, nor that this was right. But read what the nasty piece of work who ticketed him, lied about! Horrible jumped up person hiding then swooping, when the OP effectively had permission to briefly load.

Sligo Smokey, you need to stop swallowing he PPC misinformation that they can abuse the BB scheme (the PPCs abuse the scheme) and that a BB is needed.

Nope.

Scarborough_Flyer

Thank you all for quick responses.
The PPC is UKPC.
Do you think it is worth the driver complaining to the Range? Or does that risk them contacting UKPC with their details? I also see on the Range website that it specifically states that they cannot assist with 3rd party parking issues - maybe in response to high number of complaints!
If I go down the day 26 appeal route, what is the worst case scenario? Do I open up the potential to get hit for court costs if I eventually lose the appeal? If so how much could it be? There are some scary £figures on the UKPC website - But I suppose that is why they are there!
When I appeal on day 26 do I avoid giving my home address to UKPC, or does that not matter as presumably they can get this from DVLA?

Umkomaas

Do you think it is worth complaining to the Range?

Always complain to the retailer. The Range is not normally helpful, but your complaint gives them hassle to deal with, which may be the straw on the camel's back that persuades them to get rid of the root cause of their hassle.

Or does that risk them contacting UKPC with my details?

They can't - DPA.

If I go down the day 26 appeal route, what is the worst case scenario?

Maybe they still go to the DVLA for your details.

Do I open up the potential to get hit for court costs if I eventually lose the appeal?

You won't win any appeal directly with UKPC, it just opens the way to getting a POPLA Code.

If so how much could it be? There are some scary £figures on the UKPC website

You're way too far ahead of yourself. If ultimately you lost in court - £200 max, all in.

When I appeal on day 26 do I avoid giving my home address to UKPC, or does that not matter as presumably they can get this from DVLA?

The whole purpose of issuing the appeal late is to divert the PPC from accessing your data via the DVLA. Not getting it from the DVLA means they cannot hold the keeper liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

So of course you give them your address!

The_Deep

AFAIAA, The Range will not help you.

IMO, if they have all their ducks in a row, they are right, but PPCs rarely align waterfowl precisely, so read the FAQs/stickies to see if you have a case.

Consider raising the matter with your MP as it is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

Fruitcake

You parked in a disabled bay and got caught by a bunch of unregulated scammers.

Hopefully you will never park in a disabled bay again unless an occupant of the car has a disability that is covered by the Equality Act 2010.

You had a number of options including parking elsewhere or asking staff to help loading.

However, we are here to help people against these scammers, so appeal using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES thread. If/when it is rejected you make a second stage appeal to PoPLA. Use all the relevant points available including the fact that loading/unloading is not parking.

Sligo_Smokey wrote: »

Only blue badge holders, displaying a badge, may use disabled parking bays. .......bloody simple really... and you know it!!

So simple that you have got it completely wrong.
The blue badge scheme does not apply on private land.

That is no excuse for parking in a disabled bay, but many people are entitled to park in one who do not have a BB. The law is quite clear on this.

Coupon-mad

The entire point of appealing on day 26 online is TO STOP UKPC from going to the DVLA...so of course you must include your postal address as registered keeper.

It is explained in the NEWBIES thread & no appeal is ever sent with no address!