We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
BW Legal - Britannia Parking - DRPL
MustyPie
Posts: 8 Forumite
Good morning all,
I am wondering if you can help me.
I have read a lot on the stickied topics reference this, but wondering if (based on my history for this case) I need to approach this at all in a different manner.
The history:
In October 2016 I was contacted at my home address (via letter) by a company called DRPL reference a supposed Parking charge for a Britannia car park.
The card park in question was one we use all the time for shopping in the closest city to our home town. We always pay. ALWAYS. So I suspect in this instance (although this has never been confirmed) that we possibly left the car park late - but again I am unable to confirm this because it has never been confirmed fully/
I contacted the DRPL company (Via email) with the below:
Re PCN number: *****
I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:
1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and underacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority.
4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
8. Please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.
If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.
However, in my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.
Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.
Yours faithfully,
Mr *****
Back and forth emails ensued - whereby the company continued to send the same threat of charge again and again.
After months they did supply a PDF document of the vehicle in question, but did not fully provide all of the information requested above, or even confirm the reason for the charge.
They only advised that "Failed to make a valid payment" which i know is impossible. I ALWAYS but a ticket when parking. So either their equipment messed up - or we left "late" but unable to confirm how late vs the ticket we paid for - as not record of this has been supplied.
DRPL finally stopped chasing me in March 2017 - and I stupidly thought that was the last of the issue...
Fast forward to December 2018, and I am now being contacted by BWLegal about this charge.
The letters I have received (based on my deductions) are letters before claim. They are titled:
"Letter Of Claim" and include all of the normal threats reference the charge, additional costs and being advised by the land owner to proceed with court proceedings.
Now I am no stranger to SCC processes - I have to occasionally deal and defend cases in court for my company. However I want to ensure that I dont have to go through this hassle personally, and im in no way able to pay this fine to make this situation go away (single income household with 3 dependants and a mortgage).
I have contacted BritPark - in an attempt to gather information as per the below (sent on the 07/12/2018):
Good morning BirtPark,
(BWLegal also in Copy)
I am sorry to have to contact you with reference to this long ongoing dispute reference: ******
Today I have been contacted by BWLegal by post. Claiming £160 in charges for this ongoing dispute.
I have previously also been in contact with DRPL reference this matter, who flatly refused to acknowledge my requests for information on the matter.
I have never refused to pay the original charge of £60, only requesting information in order for me to understand the situation and make a judgement. I am still uninformed as to why the charge was issued, or given an opportunity to confirm the driver etc.
I'm afraid to say now based on the letter received from BWLegal, I am still no further to resolving the matter fairly.
As a Result I wish to make a Subject Access Request based on the Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) ) Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.
As a MINIMUM I require the following:
- ALL photos taken.
- A close up of the signs on the day in question.
- Evidence that you have paid a debt collector, and a breakdown of the amount listed for the charge.
- All letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence from previous refusals of this claim.
- Please provide me a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made and specifically ones for the vehicle in question - and a clear explanation of the reason a charge was applied in the first place.
- All data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs they consider are outstanding against you and/or this VRN, Please remember that any claim must be for all PCNs in one combined claim, not several separate claims.
If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.
If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.
I also wish that the agency BWLegal be informed of this request and the case put on hold until this is provided.
I must say I am VERY unhappy about this situation and as a result ALL family and friends now refuse to use this car park based on my experience.
Yours faithfully
Mr *****
No response has been received on the above.
I am now a bit lost on how to proceed and any advise will be greatly appreciated.
I am wondering if you can help me.
I have read a lot on the stickied topics reference this, but wondering if (based on my history for this case) I need to approach this at all in a different manner.
The history:
In October 2016 I was contacted at my home address (via letter) by a company called DRPL reference a supposed Parking charge for a Britannia car park.
The card park in question was one we use all the time for shopping in the closest city to our home town. We always pay. ALWAYS. So I suspect in this instance (although this has never been confirmed) that we possibly left the car park late - but again I am unable to confirm this because it has never been confirmed fully/
I contacted the DRPL company (Via email) with the below:
Re PCN number: *****
I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:
1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and underacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority.
4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
8. Please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.
If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.
However, in my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.
Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.
Yours faithfully,
Mr *****
Back and forth emails ensued - whereby the company continued to send the same threat of charge again and again.
After months they did supply a PDF document of the vehicle in question, but did not fully provide all of the information requested above, or even confirm the reason for the charge.
They only advised that "Failed to make a valid payment" which i know is impossible. I ALWAYS but a ticket when parking. So either their equipment messed up - or we left "late" but unable to confirm how late vs the ticket we paid for - as not record of this has been supplied.
DRPL finally stopped chasing me in March 2017 - and I stupidly thought that was the last of the issue...
Fast forward to December 2018, and I am now being contacted by BWLegal about this charge.
The letters I have received (based on my deductions) are letters before claim. They are titled:
"Letter Of Claim" and include all of the normal threats reference the charge, additional costs and being advised by the land owner to proceed with court proceedings.
Now I am no stranger to SCC processes - I have to occasionally deal and defend cases in court for my company. However I want to ensure that I dont have to go through this hassle personally, and im in no way able to pay this fine to make this situation go away (single income household with 3 dependants and a mortgage).
I have contacted BritPark - in an attempt to gather information as per the below (sent on the 07/12/2018):
Good morning BirtPark,
(BWLegal also in Copy)
I am sorry to have to contact you with reference to this long ongoing dispute reference: ******
Today I have been contacted by BWLegal by post. Claiming £160 in charges for this ongoing dispute.
I have previously also been in contact with DRPL reference this matter, who flatly refused to acknowledge my requests for information on the matter.
I have never refused to pay the original charge of £60, only requesting information in order for me to understand the situation and make a judgement. I am still uninformed as to why the charge was issued, or given an opportunity to confirm the driver etc.
I'm afraid to say now based on the letter received from BWLegal, I am still no further to resolving the matter fairly.
As a Result I wish to make a Subject Access Request based on the Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) ) Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.
As a MINIMUM I require the following:
- ALL photos taken.
- A close up of the signs on the day in question.
- Evidence that you have paid a debt collector, and a breakdown of the amount listed for the charge.
- All letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence from previous refusals of this claim.
- Please provide me a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made and specifically ones for the vehicle in question - and a clear explanation of the reason a charge was applied in the first place.
- All data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs they consider are outstanding against you and/or this VRN, Please remember that any claim must be for all PCNs in one combined claim, not several separate claims.
If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.
If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.
I also wish that the agency BWLegal be informed of this request and the case put on hold until this is provided.
I must say I am VERY unhappy about this situation and as a result ALL family and friends now refuse to use this car park based on my experience.
Yours faithfully
Mr *****
No response has been received on the above.
I am now a bit lost on how to proceed and any advise will be greatly appreciated.
0
Comments
-
OK, so the NEWBIES thread tells you at LBC stage, to send a SAR by email to the PPC's DPO email address shown on their PRIVACY page online. Britannia certainly have one.The letters I have received (based on my deductions) are letters before claim. They are titled:
"Letter Of Claim" and include all of the normal threats reference the charge, additional costs and being advised by the land owner to proceed with court proceedings.
Good, you will need that experience and can't avoid it unless you can persuade the retail Managers to cancel it. Try that first!Now I am no stranger to SCC processes - I have to occasionally deal and defend cases in court for my company.
Due to not emailing it the the Data Protection Officer and heading it up 'SAR' maybe?No response has been received on the above.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Hi Coupon-Mad
Thanks for the reply I appreciate your time taken to help me.
I have now corrected my mistake as of this morning after doing some more reading on the threads available to me.
I have sent and SAR (via email) to all of the required now (both the DPO address from BritPark, and also informed BW Legal contact addresses of this and advised them that I have requested an SAR from the Parking firm and as a result I require a restriction of data processing and the case should be put 'on hold as a result.
I amended the subject to include SAR also so its painfully clear. I assume they now have 1 month to reply?
I am Unable to find any retail company to complain to about the parking fine, it seems that the premise is an NCPC car park and im struggling to find who the landowners are.
Am I right in thinking that now I need to either wait for another repose from the above efforts, or wait for the SCC forms to arrive?
I want to (whilst time allows) start building up defence paperwork so that i am organised, so if there is anything obvious you can suggest I do to help here that would be great.
I plan to visit the Car park soon to get pictures of signage (from the car, from on foot etc.)
I have requested from Britannia parking, and also BWLegal, information from the PDT machine record from that day in question, of payments made and specifically ones for the vehicle in question - and a clear explanation of the reason a charge was applied in the first place, but so far nothing has been provided.
As I said, there is simply no way I parked without paying. I used to use this car park ALL the time so I understand its operation. So either its a machine error, or an overstay which based on the information I have I am unable to confirm or deny as the claimed offence date was so long ago - I don't even own the vehicle anymore!
I really do appreciate the resources available on this site. What a great bunch.0 -
It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.
Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.
This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.
Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct
The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.
Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.
All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Thank you The Deep,
I have actually (this afternoon) sent a letter (E-mail) to my Local MP - Pending a reply.
It seems, checking his site, he is behind this bill in full effect, and has even contacted local landowners to get some of these dropped.
Not that I hold out much hope for that to happen in my case...0 -
Dec 2018 The same as you I have started to receive letters from BW Legal including one asking for my outgoings accompanied by one from Britannia saying they have referred me to their legal team.
I ignored all of the letters from March 2018 when the alleged overstay apparently took place.
Then BW have started mailing, calling, texting and sending these letters since Dec.
How they got all of my details I really don’t know, am pretty cross about that for starters.
Anyway, am totally clueless about what to do despite all the information on the threads. I don’t understand what the acronyms mean.
I don’t know how far the line I am in terms of legalities.
I am loathe to caontact them b6 phone or email.
Can they get a CCJ without me know8ng it or do they have to serve me with papers first?
Really totally confused as this is completely alien to me , law breaking is just not me at all.
Please help if you can as I really am stuck.
Many Thanks
0 -
HJJ60, please read the stickies/FAQs and start your own thread.start your own thread.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
-
Well in a completely unexpected turn of events I have just received a reply from Britannia parking as follows:
Dear ****,
Please find enclosed your SAR request.
Britannia Parking have amended their processes in line with current BPA guidelines, furthermore on review of the Parking Charge Notice I can confirm we have decided to no longer continue with our legal case for PCN ***** and *****.
We have instructed BW Legal to close the claim.
Regards
A***
Training and Compliance Manager
Britannia Parking
Interesting as I didn't realise there were 2 references to charges... But I'm very happy with the result.
The tools here have enabled me to fight this since 2016 and I've learnt a lot so I'm going to try give back to the forum by pointing new members in the right direction based on the stickies. As they have been super useful in explaning things.
Kindest regards.
MustyPie0 -
Anyway, am totally clueless about what to do despite all the information on the threads. I don’t understand what the acronyms mean.
You seem to have overlooked the NEWBIES thread and the acronyms in post #5 of it.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354.4K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.4K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.4K Spending & Discounts
- 247.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 604.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.4K Life & Family
- 261.6K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards