Pending court date defense help for PCN

Coupon-mad

G wrote: »

I will contact the court tomorrow and request a copy

Good luck with that! You can't just phone up and get data like that, even if it's your data!

You needed to keep a copy of your defence ready for the hearing. Oh dear.

CEL are fairly easy to beat but don't assume it's not going ahead when Durham Court send you an Unless order, like someone did last week. They didn't even turn up for their hearing & assumed it was struck out. Even worse than not keeping a copy of the defence!

Anyway, I find this fascinating:

but her phone record shows payment was made and there own database shows this is correct time however there time stamp on the PCN is exactly 1 hour wrong. They have her entering the carpark at 9 :46 am but she was at work and parked up as she paid at 8:47am because she starts work at 9am

Was the parking event in March, on the date the clocks went forward overnight that year, and CEL hadn't got round to it?

And we hope you haven't gone and used your own name as your username here?

George_Gray

I would agree with you not having a copy but all my notes were lost after my laptop broke and didn't keep hard copy.
I found my first attempt on a memory stick but it was just the basics so will just have to wing it and see what happens.
hope I have an understanding Judge on the day and take the daughter to have a few tears etc.
just hope the time stamp issue chucks it out. It was the 21st April 2017 but all the times are correct except the time stamp so couldn't have been synchronised.
my understanding of any cctv evidence must be correct or it cant be used in court.
I noticed on the letter before action they are quoting the Beavis case to secure money.
My argument is if they claim their time stamp is correct then the database where payment was made is wrong

Coupon-mad

I found my first attempt on a memory stick but it was just the basics so will just have to wing it and see what happens.
hope I have an understanding Judge on the day

You do know there is Witness Statement and evidence stage before the hearing?

George_Gray

thanks for that info coupon -mad I didn't realise there was a witness statement and evidence stage before the hearing.
will the court send for this info from me just before the hearing as I haven't got a court date yet.
would it better for my daughter to attend the hearing and prepare a separate statement.

KeithP

You really must read and understand post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

The process is spelt out clearly there.

Coupon-mad

Do you want help again?

You disappeared but you are at WS and evidence stage now, according to something you just posted on another thread.

What WS and evidence have you prepared or already filed & served, as per the tips & examples in the NEWBIES thread?

Have you got theirs yet and do you have time to tear it to shreds in your WS?

George_Gray

Hi C M
thanks for the offer but I have submitted all the evidence to both the court and C E L
there was lots of mistakes and contradictions in there submission docs
I followed your advice and looked through all the newbies submissions and done some research on this car park.
lots of problems with lighting ,signs etc. the car park is in total darkness at night and relies on street lights that are a long way from the signs.
hopefully I win on the 29th but it has been an experience.
My local MP gave a lot of support and advice and he is confident they wont even turn up.
When I submitted my evidence for court they contacted me the next day offering a reduced payment of £100 and they are very rude on the phone.
The letter that came from them with their pack said she wouldn't be attending court and may send someone in her place.
My daughter logged into the payment agents system and downloaded all her receipts that show her time of payments and they are all consistent with time entering the car park and that one occasion of wrong VRN is one hour incorrect however the payment slip shows the correct time.
the daft part about it is if there argument is accepted she paid for parking 1 hour before arriving at the car park.
thanks for all your help

Coupon-mad

My local MP gave a lot of support and advice and he is confident they wont even turn up.

When I submitted my evidence for court they contacted me the next day offering a reduced payment of £100 and they are very rude on the phone. The letter that came from them with their pack said she wouldn't be attending court and may send someone in her place.

Your MP might be right - and offering to settle for £100 is often a feature of a case a PPC then discontinue before the hearing.

CEL are well known for discontinuing hopeless cases, hoping to avoid costs, and
I think they will, due to this (below) as long as it was all filed as evidence:

My daughter logged into the payment agents system and downloaded all her receipts that show her time of payments and they are all consistent with time entering the car park and that one occasion of wrong VRN is one hour incorrect however the payment slip shows the correct time.

the daft part about it is if there argument is accepted she paid for parking 1 hour before arriving at the car park.

Quite!

If this does proceed to a hearing, make sure the Defendant asks the Judge for their costs on the 'indemnity basis' (non standard basis) due to the Claimant's unreasonable conduct.

In advance (i.e. soon) file and serve to the Claimants solicitors, a high costs schedule including hours of research and reading their drivel at £19 per hour - make it around £500 (see the example costs schedules in the NEWBIES thread and take your inspiration from sassii's one!).

I think filing & serving that next week will get a discontinuance (no agreeing to offers!).

If they then discontinue, try to get costs awarded anyway, as described by solicitor poster LoadsofChildren123 this weekend (see her latest posts). She laid out how to do this even if a hearing is vacated. Got to be worth it in this case.

George_Gray

thanks for that C M I will get on with that tomorrow.
I really want to win and pi## them off'
All that info was submitted as evidence with attached documents of payment slips and mobile phone records that prove the time stamp is incorrect on the PCN
These people are very arrogant when on the phone to you.
I cant thank you enough for all the help and advice it really has spurred me on.


Kind Regards C M

George_Gray

Hi There C M just had another phone call from CEL further reduced offer of £60 but refused to play ball with them is this normal for them.
She indicated that they have to do this before court day
Why start court action then back peddle ?
I said don't want to deal with them over the phone and insisted they put it in writing.