Missing Listed Building Consent for Windows - Cat C

tizzwoz

Hi there,

Looking for some urgent advice.

I have put in an offer on a cat C listed building (in Scotland), date of entry is supposed to be Monday the 14th of January - hence the urgency.

Now it turns out there is no listed building consent for the replacement UPVc windows that were put in about 5 years ago. The seller has agreed to take out an indemnity insurance, but I am not convinced that covers me.
She also said she has spoken to planning and they would not be bothered chasing up windows, and that the fact that they are UPVc wouldn't matter as they are sash and therefore in keeping with the rest of the street. I am very doubtful.

Anyone got any advice? Should I still buy or walk away?

Thank you in advance!

ThePants999

If she spoke to planning, she can no longer get (valid) indemnity insurance - oops.

Should you buy or walk away? That depends on how much you value the building vs what you estimate the risk and costs of enforcement action to be.

da_rule

What has your solicitor said about the risk that could be faced if you have an insurance policy?

In most cases, enforcement would just be an order to reinstate the original windows. The cost of which would be covered by the insurance.

My bigger concern would be that the seller has potentially invalidated the insurance by talking to the planning authority.

davidmcn

I presume the date the property was listed is before the date the windows were installed?

Are you buying with a mortgage? If so then you'll probably need to go along with whatever your lender (and their solicitor, i.e. probably your solicitor) requires.

Any great need for the date of entry to be kept as 14 January? Why has this come up so late?

tizzwoz

That is part of my concern too. I am considering contacting planning myself to verify what she said but that would rock the boat further and then mean that I would "know" about the issue too and could not claim on the insurance?
I really really like the flat but I just don't know enough to understand the risks I am taking on. The listing for the building clearly states wooden 4 paned sash windows, whereas the current windows are two pane UPVc.

I have asked to reduce the price to account for the cost of replacing them if the insurance doesn't cover me, but the seller does not want to accept, despite having bought the place at a discount for the exact reason herself. Fishy? Methinks so.

tizzwoz

davidmcn wrote: »

I presume the date the property was listed is before the date the windows were installed?

Are you buying with a mortgage? If so then you'll probably need to go along with whatever your lender (and their solicitor, i.e. probably your solicitor) requires.

Any great need for the date of entry to be kept as 14 January? Why has this come up so late?

The issue has come up ages ago, the seller playing dumb saying she doesn't understand the issue. We then had a delay in selling our place, so it was put on ice, I guess. Can't delay the 14th, as the sale of the house is now concluded, I have to be out of here by Monday.

The property was listed in 1980, so yes, well before the windows were changed.

ThePants999

The insurance issue isn't to do with whether you "know" - it's to do with whether it's been brought to the council's attention. Insurers are all about risk, and when the event you're insuring against is the council taking enforcement action, the risk goes up by orders of magnitude when someone tells them about a breach they might want to take action on!

davidmcn

tizzwoz wrote: »

I just don't know enough to understand the risks I am taking on.

This is what you're paying your solicitor to advise you on. So try to pin them down.

Ultimately the risk is that the council require you to reinstate the original style of windows. The more practical risk is that you have difficulties selling or mortgaging the property in the future without carrying out remedial works, getting retrospective consent, or getting an acceptable indemnity policy. And as I said, you might have the problem of not getting any current mortgage you're planning to use for your purchase.

I wouldn't recommend relying on an indemnity policy if it's already been prejudiced by the seller blabbing to the council.

tizzwoz

davidmcn wrote: »

This is what you're paying your solicitor to advise you on. So try to pin them down.

Ultimately the risk is that the council require you to reinstate the original style of windows. The more practical risk is that you have difficulties selling or mortgaging the property in the future without carrying out remedial works, getting retrospective consent, or getting an acceptable indemnity policy. And as I said, you might have the problem of not getting any current mortgage you're planning to use for your purchase.

I wouldn't recommend relying on an indemnity policy if it's already been prejudiced by the seller blabbing to the council.

Thank you. Yes, I am relying on a mortgage, and the lender is currently reviewing the indemnity insurance to see whether they will accept it. So if they don't, the point is moot as I won't be able to buy anyways, but if they do, I still have the dilemma of whether I should take on the risk. Not being able to sell is a concern as I am not planning on keeping the place until I die. Ideally, the indemnity insurance should make selling easier, but how realistic this is, I do not know.

davidmcn

In the meantime, I would recommend considering a Plan B for where you're going to move to next Monday...

tizzwoz

davidmcn wrote: »

In the meantime, I would recommend considering a Plan B for where you're going to move to next Monday...

Working on it. Turns out to be a lot more difficult than anticipated, seems like nobody allows dogs in rented properties anymore :-( Not even when I explain that he is very well behaved and rarely left unattended, as I work from home full time, I'm prepared to double the deposit and of course cover any damages in the unlikely event. Contemplating buying a motorhome to move into at the current stage!