ParkingEye Beehive Cambridge - 2 PCNs

AceOfBass

Hello all.
Got a PCN for a car that i lease from VWFS, from ParkingEye, for the Beehive Shopping Centre in Cambridge. I plan to appeal as lessee and will not be identifying the driver.

At this stage, i know the routine - request a POPLA code (hoping they give up first), then put together an appeal using the full might of this forum. The curious part of the story is that i actually received 2 PCNs for the same parking event:

1) an initial PCN dated 19/12/2018, alleging an overstay of 18 minutes in a 3 hr max stay carpark,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1dnnozab093jxm/PE_PCN1.png?dl=0

2) a PCN Reminder dated 28/12/2018, alleging a lack of an appropriate permit/authorisation.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/afjsxw5vld8t2zn/PE_PCN2.png?dl=0

Both are definitely for the same event, dated 10/11/2018. The first PCN contains reference to POFA, but the reminder does not (that i can see?). Also, THEY DID NOT send any of the documentation required in 14(2)(a) of Schedule 4, which will be one of the main points of an appeal. I've heard nothing at all from the lease company, VWFS. They've obviously passed on my details to try to transfer responsibility.

Anyhow, the main question: is it reasonable to argue that it's not clear which contravention applies, and thus the PCN is non-compliant, or could PE argue on both? A bit of investigation reveals the time limit could apply, but a typical shopper does not require a permit.

Furthermore, i would be really grateful if someone could confirm the appropriate time to send the initial appeal to PE. Is there a best time when appealing as a lessee?

All help most welcome.

Redx

I suppose you could state that the contravention is not clear due to conflicting information on each PCN, no problem in doing that although POFA2012 is the main argument here

anytime is ok to appeal it, just do not miss the 28 day deadline

I see no reason to delay any appeal to PE, and for popla you have up to 33 days, but again nothing to gain in any delays

Coupon-mad

ParkingEye always send that reminder. Everyone gets those.

Got a PCN for a car that i lease from VWFS, from ParkingEye, for the Beehive Shopping Centre in Cambridge. I plan to appeal as lessee and will not be identifying the driver.

Good, you will win by being the hirer/lessee and citing the POFA Schedule 4, para 13/14.

PE will most likely throw in the towel.

AceOfBass

Thank you to Redx and Coupon-mad for your replies - much appreciated.

@Redx i asked about the optimum appeal day only as i wondered if there was a value to appealing closer to the 21 day point (from the date of the NTH), mainly so i don't alert PE to the opportunity to send any missing documents inside the deadline.

MistyZ

AceOfBass, I expect Redx will respond to the question you addressed to him. Meanwhile, it is also my understanding that it is safest to appeal a NTH closer to the 21 day point.

Redx

AceOfBass wrote: »

Thank you to Redx and Coupon-mad for your replies - much appreciated.

@Redx i asked about the optimum appeal day only as i wondered if there was a value to appealing closer to the 21 day point (from the date of the NTH), mainly so i don't alert PE to the opportunity to send any missing documents inside the deadline.

if you feel that a delay may help you then go for it, just do not miss any deadlines, that is the crux of the matter

AceOfBass

Thanks to all that posted replies thus far. This one doesn't seem to want to go away just yet.
I submitted my POPLA appeal on the 5th Feb and it is still at stage 2 (waiting for the operator to respond). However, this morning (12th March) i received a 'final notice' from ParkingEye suggesting that the 28 day window for appeal with POPLA has passed and i didn't appeal.

I would be grateful if someone could advise: should i contact ParkingEye to politely inform them of their error, or go back to POPLA to ask them what's going on?

Side question: how long does an operator have to respond to a new POPLA appeal before POPLA throw it out as uncontested?

AceOfBass

I phoned POPLA today to check on the progress of my appeal.

It turns out they have major computer problems right now and my appeal, although technically submitted, was not registered properly by their systems. The lady i spoke to suggested this was affecting a "very large number of cases". Consequently, my appeal was never sent to the parking operator, hence the enforcement notice letter.

Worse, she could not confirm that there was any record of the submission (even though I have a confirmation email and can login to track the progress) and I now have to wait while their IT teams try to work out whether they agree I submitted the appeal when I say i did. A nice extra bit of stress on top of the stress of waiting for the actual appeal result.

Oh, and in case anyone reads this and wonders on the answer to the question of how long an operator has to respond to a new appeal: 21 days.

The_Deep

PE signs often leave much to be desired, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

and complain to your MP

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has cleared Parliament and hopefully, this will become law shortly.

MistyZ

AceOfBass wrote: »

It turns out they have major computer problems right now and my appeal, although technically submitted, was not registered properly by their systems. The lady i spoke to suggested this was affecting a "very large number of cases". Consequently, my appeal was never sent to the parking operator, hence the enforcement notice letter.

Worse, she could not confirm that there was any record of the submission (even though I have a confirmation email and can login to track the progress) and I now have to wait while their IT teams try to work out whether they agree I submitted the appeal when I say i did. A nice extra bit of stress on top of the stress of waiting for the actual appeal result.

I helped someone with a P.E. hire car POPLA appeal which was submitted on 14/12/18. Notification of success eventually came on 13/02/19.

A 'Final Notice' was received in the interim, I tend to think they just do this anyway, regardless of delays & whatnot.

So, you have had confirmation that there are major computer problems, you have a confirmation email and can log in to track progress .... I think you have nothing to worry about.

I would be tempted to phone POPLA again and demand an email confirming that, if the appeal isn't 'found', re-submission will be possible with no adverse consequences for the hirer. I reckon they must know that an appeal has been submitted ... surely they can locate confirmation emails that have been sent, at the very least.

I don't really believe anything they say, I'd just want to be covered for all eventualities. But don't talk to Parking Eye! Who'd want to do that?! However why not tell POPLA that they should instruct all PPCs not to harass those who have submitted delayed POPLA appeals?

AceOfBass

Thanks MistyZ, i appreciate the response.
I had already emailed POPLA immediately off the back of the phone call yesterday resending my appeal document AND stating that i expected them to contact PE to tell them to stand down. I'll give them until tomorrow before i follow up. Like you say, i do at least have the original confirmation email and screenshots of the track-appeal system to fall back on.

She did tell me during the call that they'd contacted all operators to inform them of their computer issues, but this feels vague and unconvincing. More concerning, she admitted that there was little chance they'd know which appeals were 'lost' until the appellant got in touch to ask!

I wanted to be more angry about it all, but in honesty i felt sorry for her. Front line staff like her are often made to take the brunt of complaints about organisational problems for which they are not directly responsible. I just asked her to escalate upwards that this was the very definition of a failure of service.