[Help] Claim form arrived - vs VCS

Veb

Hello MS Experts

I have just received my claim form from VCS. I would like you guys to help make sure I am making the best decisions. I've read the newbies sticky form and a few other threads prior to this posting but now I need some individual advice.

Here is whats up.

The setting:- A town house apartment with its own private parking spaces being managed by VCS. Home owners only get 1 space per flat as the parking spot has your flat number on it. I was renting the property at the time and had my car in my own space.

Because there are only 4 spaces for guests (near impossible to grab), the defendant (partner) had to park in a spot by the bins. This was late at night. It was not a designated parking spot but it was common practice to park there. In front was the janitors room and it had a 'no parking' sign on it. The contract sign is hidden behind the 2 cars and overall lighting was poor.

http[://]tinypic[dot]com/r/sor04y/9 - box shows car

Got a NTK the following morning.

Read up on MSE forums and followed through with the advice by ignoring all letters until the LBC which was sent 27/9/18 but was only received early October.

A response letter was sent to them - signed 11/10/18. I followed the response based on one of the other threads as it seemed very robust. Here is the gist:

[]...after thorough review of the letter, this letter does not contain all the necessary information as stated in the Practice Direction as published by the Ministry of Justice – in particular paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) (justice website link)




This information should include (but not limited to):
1. An explanation for the cause of action
2. Whether you are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. A copy of the contract with the landowner under which you assert authority to bring claim
3. A copy of the alleged contract with the driver
4. What the details of the claims are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed ) - please support by providing photographs
5. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
6. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
.......
I also personalized it as my partner was heavily pregnant and felt that this added to her stress.

I mentioned the SRA but failed to follow through with reporting them. (baby arrived)

No response from VCS until today when then claim form came through.

The particulars of the claim is ridiculous. It reads - 'The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £xx due from the defendant in respect of a Charge Notice (CN) for a contravention on [date] at xxxx apartment. The CN relates to x car under registration xxxxx. The defendant has failed to pay therefore this claim is made under section 69 of the Country Courts Act 1984 etc.'

I am rather annoyed that I did not get a response from them detailing how I have allegedly broken said contract so I am unsure how to go about my defence. I suppose I can start by showing them that they have not acted in good faith by communicating with me prior to this claim and then delve into why the defendant parked in such a spot.

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.

The_Deep

Home owners only get 1 space per flat

In which you parked one car.

defendant had to park in a spot by the bins.

So, you occupied two spaces.

Read up on MSE forums and followed through with the advice by ignoring all letters

Not our advice surely?

I mentioned the SRA but failed to follow through with reporting them.

Is a solicitor involved? If so, which one?

The particulars of the claim is ridiculous.

It seems reasonable to me, you have one space and two cars, i.e . one car too many. You cannot expect other residents to tolerate your fly parking surely. It the PPC have acted correctly and jumped through all the court hoops, I cannot see how they could not win. No doubt others will try to find a loophole for you.

Redx

Veb wrote: »

Hello MS Experts

I have just received my claim form from VCS

The particulars of the claim is ridiculous. It reads - 'The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £xx due from the defendant in respect of a Charge Notice (CN) for a contravention on [date] at xxxx apartment. The CN relates to x car under registration xxxxx. The defendant has failed to pay therefore this claim is made under section 69 of the Country Courts Act 1984 etc.'

I am rather annoyed that I did not get a response from them detailing how I have allegedly broken said contract so I am unsure how to go about my defence. I suppose I can start by showing them that they have not acted in good faith by communicating with me prior to this claim and then delve into why the defendant parked in such a spot.

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.

what is the DATE OF ISSUE , the full POC and the breakdown of charges on your MCOL form ?

send the DPO at VCS an email with a SAR request under the GDPR asap, to get all their data on you and your vehicle

as for your defence, despite reading the NEWBIES thread you clearly have not understood what a defence actually is, because your explanation above is your "story", a WS is your "story" and this WS and evidence stage is much , much nearer the court date

your DEFENCE will consist of the legal reason why you are not liable for this charge, so start by reading the OWN SPACE defence by Johnnersh, then read the examples honed by member BARGEPOLE , especially his concise starter defence

then read ALL the posts by member BARGEPOLE over the last 12 months , including his recent court win where he helped a resident beat a PPC

then start to draft your defence based on what you read plus anything of interest in the reply to your SAR, if it comes in time

do the AOS online asap, as well as the SAR asap, to give yourself time to work on your defence (note:- the SAR reply may not come back in time)

so you need to do 2 things this weekend, then do plenty of research on the defences I mentioned, as research is the key here

and read your lease carefully, to see about any parking rules and primacy of contract etc, because as mentioned above, if you are in the wrong in parking 2 cars there, then you may be on a loser straightway. you had no legal contract to park the second vehicle on the premises, so it should not have been parked there - period

ie:- if you are caught doing 100mph on a 70mph motorway, you are guilty of speeding, so maybe you are bang to rights in this case ?

please note this is NOT a legal forum, its a consumer help forum, so most people here (including me) have no legal training, so dont expect miracles unless somebody WITH some legal training replies

we are volunteers helping out, not trained solicitors , so do not expect to get free legal advice, just common sense advice, plus pointers on what you should do and where you are going wrong

and we have not advised that anyone IGNORE a private parking charge notice in england and wales since february 2013 on this forum, I can assure you of that (so you have NOT read that on here or over on pepipoo forums either). we do tell people to ignore debt collector letters, plus its different rules for scotland and northern ireland

good luck

Veb

Thanks for the detailed replies.

To clarify, the two cars pictured are someone else's. The defendants car was parked in the colored box.

@redx thanks. I'll have a look through bargepoles posts.

Redx

its still going to need a win based on a legal technicality or rules as the deep said

one authorised parking space and 2 vehicles does not compute , no permission for 2 vehicles, private land, a difficult one to argue before a judge

most "own space" defences are based on the tenant or leaseholder having primacy of contract to park in their own space

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Le_Kirk

Your link(s) made live: -
http://tinypic.com/r/sor04y/9

Veb

@keith 28 Dec 18

@redx when I first did my research, I thought about the defences of inadequate signage as the signage is behind the two parked vehicles making it difficult to see on entering. But I suppose their counterargument is that there are plenty of signs on the way in.

The other thing is that the area is an easement for access to the recycling bins. From the parking prankster website -
"There may be communal spaces (eg visitor parking) or access roads where parking permission is not granted by the lease or covered by a permit scheme. Communal areas are not necessarily a free-for-all, governed only by the operator signage. This was central to the Jopson case: an easement over the access roads implies a right to stop and load/unload. Furthermore, easements are sometimes worded such that they grant lessees the use of communal areas without specifying any uses, in which case a lessee can do what he likes there, including parking. "

Thirdly, there is a no parking sign in front of the wooden door so perhaps this is one of tresspass? Maybe this one is too far fetched.

So I guess the question is, is it still worth going to court?

The_Deep

As others have said, if the PPC has aligned their ducks a judge is
unlikely to find for you. He/she might well suggest you either move house or sell a car.

Deliberately flouting rules made for the common good might, in extreme cases, lead to eviction for anti social behaviour.

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 28th December, you have until Wednesday 16th January to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Wednesday 30th January 2019 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Loads of time to hone your Defence to perfection, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

Redx

Veb wrote: »

@keith 28 Dec 18

@redx when I first did my research, I thought about the defences of inadequate signage as the signage is behind the two parked vehicles making it difficult to see on entering. But I suppose their counterargument is that there are plenty of signs on the way in.

The other thing is that the area is an easement for access to the recycling bins. From the parking prankster website -
"There may be communal spaces (eg visitor parking) or access roads where parking permission is not granted by the lease or covered by a permit scheme. Communal areas are not necessarily a free-for-all, governed only by the operator signage. This was central to the Jopson case: an easement over the access roads implies a right to stop and load/unload. Furthermore, easements are sometimes worded such that they grant lessees the use of communal areas without specifying any uses, in which case a lessee can do what he likes there, including parking. "

Thirdly, there is a no parking sign in front of the wooden door so perhaps this is one of tresspass? Maybe this one is too far fetched.

So I guess the question is, is it still worth going to court?

as you say, it may be a case of forbidding signage and trespass if you want to argue that aspect, because the vehicle wasnt in a marked parking bay, so no parking contract was formed


and I doubt your lease will help you, so maybe that is the way to go ?


only YOU can decide if its worth going to court, nobody on here will answer that one, all we do is advise on common sense and various consumer issues etc, this isnt a legal forum with trained legal advisors, its a consumer advice forum