VCS Berkley Centre Sheffield - didn't overstay

Katie-Kat-Kins

Hi,


I have read the newbies thread but have a slightly unusual situation here.


A family member parked in this car park a few weeks ago, they were aware that the car park is restricted and had been warned that the restrictions were enforced by camera so carefully watched the time they were parked in the car park.


The keeper of the vehicle has now received a PCN for failing to pay the correct charge.


The PCN includes photos of the vehicle arriving and leaving with times. These show that the vehicle was on the premises for less than the maximum allowed 120 minutes.


The notice does not state what charge should have been paid or give any other details of the alleged breach. Family member said that there were no payment machines and the signs simply indicated a maximum stay rather than being "Pay and Display" signs. This link https://goo.gl/images/Z5w7RS shows the signage and we believe that this is how the signs look now. Unfortunately the car park is not local so it is not possible to go back and get photos of the signs.


So we plan to appeal, although I appreciate that IPS appeals are pretty pointless. Any advice given the slightly unusual PCN?


Also is anyone on here local to this car park who would be able to take some photos or have some already from their own appeal that they would be willing to share?


Finally the notice was issued 15 days after the date of the parking and therefore arrived more than 14 days after the incident. Although there were bank holidays in between. Does this mean that the notice is defective? The driver is not identified, this is helpful isn't it?


Thanks in advance

Umkomaas

This link https://goo.gl/images/Z5w7RS shows the signage and we believe that this is how the signs look now.

The signs at the entry to a car park are often lacking in detail. The signs on the lampposts in front of KFC, Tesco Express etc would likely have more detail, but zooming in on them in GSV just blurs them, so can't get to read the detail.

Was the entry to this car park made in the evening, after the shops on the retail park had closed?

Any advice given the slightly unusual PCN?

Explain it to a Judge if it gets that far.

Finally the notice was issued 15 days after the date of the parking and therefore arrived more than 14 days after the incident. Although there were bank holidays in between. Does this mean that the notice is defective? The driver is not identified, this is helpful isn't it?

Bank holidays (and weekends) are all included in the day count. Please give us:

The date of the parking event
The issue date of the NtK (shown on the NtK)
The date on which you received the NtK.

The notice might be 'defective' in facilitating the transfer of liability to the keeper, but does not void the charge to the driver. But VCS will try to bulldoze their way through that regardless - read other threads using keywords 'VCS Elliott Loake'

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Katie-Kat-Kins

Umkomaas wrote: »

The signs at the entry to a car park are often lacking in detail. The signs on the lampposts in front of KFC, Tesco Express etc would likely have more detail, but zooming in on them in GSV just blurs them, so can't get to read the detail.

Was the entry to this car park made in the evening, after the shops on the retail park had closed?.

No it was during the day when the shops were open. I have had the same problem with the additional signs.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Explain it to a Judge if it gets that far.

Bank holidays (and weekends) are all included in the day count. Please give us:

The date of the parking event
The issue date of the NtK (shown on the NtK)
The date on which you received the NtK.

The date of the parking event - 12/12/18
The issue date of the NtK (shown on the NtK) - 27/12/18
The date on which you received the NtK - 31/12/18

Umkomaas wrote: »

The notice might be 'defective' in facilitating the transfer of liability to the keeper, but does not void the charge to the driver. But VCS will try to bulldoze their way through that regardless - read other threads using keywords 'VCS Elliott Loake'

Thanks have read a bit on that but probably need to get to grips with it in more detail so I'll have a good search.

Ralph-y

"Any advice given the slightly unusual PCN?"



we treat all cases the same ... only the posters think that they are unusual


so while you follow the good advise above ...


complain to all the shops you visited and/or/as well to the landowner ... and MP.


Ralph:cool:

Umkomaas

In view of the fact that you are somewhat distant from the car park, why not give one or two of the stores a phone call and ask them what the parking arrangements are in regard to P&D. Ask (if appropriate) where the P&D machines are.

The other possibility is that individual retail outlets are kitted with touchscreens requiring input of the vehicle's registration number to authorise parking for those using the outlets, rather than just using the car park to shoot off somewhere else - check that out.

Then the one very good way of getting a charge cancelled is via the retailer. With a multi retail site no one retailer will be the principal in the contract with the PPC - more likely a managing agent or even the actual landowner, so please ask some questions about who owns/manages the site.

Castle

Katie-Kat-Kins wrote: »

The date of the parking event - 12/12/18
The issue date of the NtK (shown on the NtK) - 27/12/18
The date on which you received the NtK - 31/12/18
.

The dates above confirms that it doesn't comply with the requirements of POFA2012. (The latest it could have been posted to arrive within 14 days would have been the 20th December).

RobinofLoxley

I parked in here a few months ago and as the sign says it is a free 2 hour maximum stay, no pay and display.

If VCS's own photo evidence shows an in time and a out time of less than 120 mins as you say, that's very strange.

Perhaps you can put up a scan/photo of the NTK on here (via a image hosting website), with all personal identifying details (name, address, VRM etc.) redacted.


When I get chance I will pop in and get some photos of the internal signs.

Hiltop1

This used to be a free 2 hr APNR car park but there are now ticket machines which give an hour (might be longer) for free. I haven't checked if the signage has been updated to correspond. I tried contacting the shops when I was ticketed here years ago, but they all said they were not responsible for the parking contract. I suppose the landowner is worth a try?

Katie-Kat-Kins

Castle wrote: »

The dates above confirms that it doesn't comply with the requirements of POFA2012. (The latest it could have been posted to arrive within 14 days would have been the 20th December).

Well that's a good start and hopefully a pretty solid point to challenge them on.

Umkomaas wrote: »

In view of the fact that you are somewhat distant from the car park, why not give one or two of the stores a phone call and ask them what the parking arrangements are in regard to P&D. Ask (if appropriate) where the P&D machines are.

The other possibility is that individual retail outlets are kitted with touchscreens requiring input of the vehicle's registration number to authorise parking for those using the outlets, rather than just using the car park to shoot off somewhere else - check that out.

Then the one very good way of getting a charge cancelled is via the retailer. With a multi retail site no one retailer will be the principal in the contract with the PPC - more likely a managing agent or even the actual landowner, so please ask some questions about who owns/manages the site.

It looks like a managing agent for a landowner separate from the retailers so not holding out much hope of getting anywhere with them.

Katie-Kat-Kins

RobinofLoxley wrote: »

I parked in here a few months ago and as the sign says it is a free 2 hour maximum stay, no pay and display.

If VCS's own photo evidence shows an in time and a out time of less than 120 mins as you say, that's very strange.

Perhaps you can put up a scan/photo of the NTK on here (via a image hosting website), with all personal identifying details (name, address, VRM etc.) redacted.


When I get chance I will pop in and get some photos of the internal signs.

If you are able to get some photos that would be awesome - thanks

Katie-Kat-Kins

Hiltop1 wrote: »

This used to be a free 2 hr APNR car park but there are now ticket machines which give an hour (might be longer) for free. I haven't checked if the signage has been updated to correspond. I tried contacting the shops when I was ticketed here years ago, but they all said they were not responsible for the parking contract. I suppose the landowner is worth a try?

Ah that might explain things then.......


Can't have been very clear then - although I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, it is in the parking company's interest to catch people out!


Anyone know much about grace periods, if it is one hour free then there is a 14 minute overstay according to the cameras