Universal credit, do sanctions continue after winning WCA?

oopsiedoopsie

Hello there,
I've been struggling to find an answer to this anywhere, so hopefully someone can help.


My understanding is that under the old system, if you had sanctions on JSA but then won ESA the sanctions you had on JSA would not effect the ESA payments.

I'm on Universal Credit however, and it's just recently occurred to me that the UC basic payment is the same benefit whether you are fit for work or are found to have limited capability. Is this correct?

My story is a bit long winded. I started UC back in late 2015 but was suffering with depression, so I did the whole fit note thing and had a WCA in 2016 but was found fit for work as I had been trying anti-depressents which had given me a boost which coincided with the WCA. It didn't last much longer and I got worse, started getting sanctions for not meeting commitment. I eventually managed to persuade someone somewhere that my condition was worse so should get a new WCA. I also managed to overturn some sanctions after this by providing fit notes and saying I had a new WCA on the way.

However, as I still wasn't meeting the commitment they kept asking why I'd not met it and I said the same thing as before, that I was sending fit notes and waiting for the new WCA. I assumed that would be fine, as the sanctions had been overturned before because of this, but then one day I got about 7 letters through the door at once all saying I was being sanctioned for 91 days each, so about two years total.

I thought it must be a mistake, so I was quite confident with the reconsideration request, but the decision maker phoned me up and told me the previous overturning of sanctions had not been correct and that the new 2 year sanction would remain. I was pretty defeated by this and clocked up more sanctions to hit the full 3 years because I wasn't managing to meet the commitment.

Anyway, I had my new WCA in 2017 but was found fit for work again. I went ahead with the reconsideration and appeal and my tribunal hearing is coming up soon.

I seem to remember that my work coach had said after the first sanctions that a successful WCA would make the sanctions disappear, but now that I'm looking I can't seem to find anything that says that, and the more I think about it and look at the regulations the more I think it isn't correct and that winning at the appeal won't actually make any financial difference.

Anyone got a definitive answer? Any help much appreciated

huckster

Can't point you to legislation, but a sanction is a daily rate applied for each day you have not met work related commitment.

If you are found to have limited capability for work, then you would not have work related requirements, therefore the daily sanction would be removed from date of award. This is provided the tribunal confirms limited capability for work from the date you started to register Doctors sick notes with UC.

oopsiedoopsie

Thanks for the response. So is it a case, hypothetically if I win, of the sanctions being automatically deemed completely invalid because they were issued at the time while I was waiting for the WCA and being, for that time, retroactively considered unfit for work even though it's a date before the WCA?

Or:
The sanction reduction no longer being applied while I'm, hypothetically unfit for work? In which case if I was found fit for work again sometime later in the future, what's left of the sanctions would still be there?

Ineededaname

It depends what the sanctions are for.

Your first example is how it would work, although I expect it would still have to go through a decision maker. If you are placed in a group where you weren't expected to undertake certain conditionality from a certain date, it follows that sanctions for not doing so after this date would be overturned.

However - you need to be placed into the support group to have no requirements at all. This sounds highly unlikely if you've been found fit for work twice + on a reconsideration.

If you are found to be not fit for work and placed into the Work Preparation group, you still have to attend appointments and can be set work preparation steps.

In this situation sanctions for not searching for work or accepting work should be overturned easily enough, but sanctions for missing appointments or not completing work preparation steps could still be upheld. You may still be able to ask for them to be reconsidered based on the new evidence, but that would be down to a decision maker to consider if the steps asked of you were unreasonable.

oopsiedoopsie

So that makes it sound like I would need to appeal the sanctions. But I don't see how that would be possible if the decisions was made in back in 2017? Isn't there a 1 month time limit?

huckster

Or you submit details of the sanctions applied to the tribunal and if you are awarded limited capability for work, the sanctions issue can be resolved at the same time.

From what I have seen, if you are awarded limited capability for work, meaning that the reason for sanction is not appropriate, then the sanctions are removed and any payments calculated.

oopsiedoopsie

It's just the tribunal is only a month away, so there isn't time for the proper procedure. Don't the DWP have to be given a chance to respond and agree to accept the tribunals ruling on the sanctions?

huckster

Who is representing you at the tribunal ?

If yourself, just make the tribunal aware of the sanctions information, if they agree that you have limited capability for work.

Make the case that the sanctions applied are due to your health condition and not being able to meet the claimant commitment expected by the Job Centre.

Ineededaname

Usually yes - and each sanction is a separate decision. Normal procedure would be to appeal to DWP (individually, for each one) and only then could you proceed to tribunal. I'm not sure the tribunal will be able to make any rulings on the sanctions within your WCA appeal, but I suppose it can't hurt to bring it up.

With regards to the time limit, there is a standard one month window to appeal however you can sometimes still request a mandatory reconsideration outside of the limit. Before a decision maker would look at the decision itself, they will decide if there is an acceptable reason for the appeal being made late. In this case that reason would be substantial new evidence that was not availalbe to you at the time.

As I said in my previous post I believe they will all still need to go through a decision maker - even if it is straight forward. Sanctions being removed could generate a substantial underpayment on your claim at this point. That's not going to just happen automatically.

In the event you are found LCWRA, any sanctions applied after the date they accept you as LCWRA would be invalid and should easily be overtunred on appeal to the DWP. Due to the simplicity of this i'd think you could get everything looked at in one go and the tribunal may even advise the DWP to do this?

However as I said before it seems very unlikely that will be the outcome. If you are only found LCW then it depends what the sanctions are for. While sanctions for not looking for work are simple decisions as in the above scenario, the other sanctions are not. As the DWP may be able to uphold them this would be individual appeals and I see no way the tribunal could make a fair ruling on all of this without hearing each case properly.

oopsiedoopsie

The sanction letters use the words:
On [date] we told you we were worried you hadn't done everything possible to find work from [date] to [date]


Would that be covered by LCW?

huckster

LCW could mean having to do some work preparation activities, which might mean having to attend Job Centre . For example, they might have sessions about 'how to search for jobs', write a CV. I don't think there is a requirement to attend regularly, as if you were in intensive work search regime.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition-quick-guide/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition