Soaked walls around window HELP!

JohnoWhits

Thanks again for all these replies.

With regards to the dehumidifier; I just can't help but think we are just treating the symptoms rather than the problem. The reveals will still be a significant amount cooler than the rest of the walls.

Lunatic I'd guess (and i'm awful with measurements!) but i'd say they're about 1metre thick. I agree with you about sealing but still having airflow. When we had sealant around the window board (we've now removed it to try and figure out what is going on), i swear i could still feel air coming through the stone.

I don't know why but i just assumed the person we had in would know what he was doing; as he also specialises in exterior insulation/render and even commented that the stuff we have externally didn't look like the right stuff as it wouldn't let the stone breath.

We are semi-detatched and pretty exposed at the front where our bedroom faces as there is a large field.

We have an 17 month old and this is our first home and don't plan (or can afford to move) anytime in the near future. I think we are going to have to have a massive look at the whole house in general going forwards as suggested.

Given that we are staying put would you still knock back the reveals to stone and lime plaster them?

If we were to get someone in to give a quote what type of trade would we need? Or is it worth contacting a company that show a specific interest in stone buildings?

Thanks again so much for helping me try and find a solution. I have a chef husband who works 60+ hours a week so i have a lot of time to moyther over this!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

JohnoWhits wrote: »

I don't know why but i just assumed the person we had in would know what he was doing; as he also specialises in exterior insulation/render and even commented that the stuff we have externally didn't look like the right stuff as it wouldn't let the stone breath.

The consensus seems to be that it's the homeowners responsibility to show due diligence but it's not something I agree with.

You hire a tradeperson, who should be the expert, but it's apparently OK for them to just do what you ask regardless, or worse you don't specify anything and they just do what they feel is best.

That's not to say your plaster has acted dishonestly, they've just applied their knowledge/skill to doing the job, this kind of thing is common with stone buildings, a large house near us is being renovated and all the walls were striped back and rendered in cement!

JohnoWhits wrote: »

Given that we are staying put would you still knock back the reveals to stone and lime plaster them?

It seems a shame to rip out work you've just had done, tricky one to answer really.

How long ago was the plastering done? Is the dehumidifier taking much water from air? Is the bedroom heated (if not do you plan to install heating in the future)? Just the one room had the wall insulation and plastering done or the whole house?

JohnoWhits wrote: »

If we were to get someone in to give a quote what type of trade would we need? Or is it worth contacting a company that show a specific interest in stone buildings?

If you can find one, a local builder who specialises in working with lime would be ideal but they are likely to charge more and the materials are more expensive as well.

If you knew your stuff and could tell any potential tradeperson exactly what you want they could either say yes I can do that or no I can't.

As a quick run down (based on my experience rather than any professional knowledge), for our house the internal stone walls had all the old plaster knocked off, a scratch coat of lime and sand to level them out somewhat and a top coat of lime hemp plaster:

https://www.lime.org.uk/lime-hemp-plaster-non-hydraulic.html

and painted with Earthborn clay paint.

The external walls were knocked back to stone, given a scratch coat of lime and sand, stud frame to create an air gap (a breatherable membrane is a good idea as well but we didn't know this at the time), thermafleece insulation:

https://www.lime.org.uk/thermafleece-natrahamp-insulation.html

then a stud wall with wool boards (plasterboard alternative):

https://www.lime.org.uk/wood-wool-building-boards.html

In theory you should apply a mesh, either to the boards before plastering or in the middle of the plaster (I'm not sure to be honest) to reduce shrinkage and prevent cracks appearing where the boards join as the plaster dries:

https://www.lime.org.uk/render-mesh.html

If you want a smooth finish use a stiff brush to score the lime as a key and apply a finishing plaster (I think you apply the finishing plaster a couple days after the hemp plaster):

https://www.lime.org.uk/lime-top-coat-finish-plaster.html

We left the hemp plaster as top coat, mist coat of paint, went over the walls with sandpaper to smooth out a little and applied a final coat of paint.

My wife wanted straight walls so at least this way the walls have a bit of a rustic finish to them.

If you call Ty-mawr they are very helpful with advice.

https://www.celticsustainables.co.uk is another site selling all this kind of stuff (there are probably others as well).

Just add there is a concern with thermafleece and moths, there are other types of insulation such as wood fibre and hemp boards.

JohnoWhits wrote: »

Thanks again so much for helping me try and find a solution. I have a chef husband who works 60+ hours a week so i have a lot of time to moyther over this!

No problem, similar situation to yourself and we are about half way through the house after 5 years of slow progress mainly due to doing as much as we can ourselves, it's been interesting but getting to the point we just want it done now!

Fire_Fox

JohnoWhits wrote: »

Lunatic I'd guess (and i'm awful with measurements!) but i'd say they're about 1metre thick. I agree with you about sealing but still having airflow. When we had sealant around the window board (we've now removed it to try and figure out what is going on), i swear i could still feel air coming through the stone ...

We have an 17 month old and this is our first home and don't plan (or can afford to move) anytime in the near future. I think we are going to have to have a massive look at the whole house in general going forwards as suggested.

Could the air flow you are feeling be the normal downdraft? This occurs as warm air circulating the room hits a cold window or external wall, quickly cools as it drops down drops down, then circulates back into the room lower down. From what I have been reading the design and fitting of the window treatment - not simply the materials - is key to reducing this.

Apparently curtains should hang full height floor to ceiling, as close to the window sill or glazing as possible, panels overlap in the middle and fully contact the wall at either side. A long enough pole or track, and the full double width of fabric really helps here.

Thermal blinds should also fit tightly within or around the window reveal, top and bottom and either side. Ideally blinds would run in guides/ tracks/ channels at the sides rather than hanging loose.

The experts MSE suggestions for adapting existing window treatments include: switching from a pole and brackets to a curtain track, fitting a pelmet at the top, using sewing magnets or hook-and-loop tape (= Velcro!) to attach curtain panels to one another and to the wall, using drapery weights in the hem.

Hopefully something here clicks for you, it certainly did for me! :A

Niv

I cant really add to Lunatic's useful advise in his post but to throw another company in the ring, I have found limebase very helpful too:


https://www.limebase.co.uk/

Fire_Fox

JohnoWhits wrote: »

Thanks again for all these replies.

With regards to the dehumidifier; I just can't help but think we are just treating the symptoms rather than the problem. The reveals will still be a significant amount cooler than the rest of the walls ....

We are semi-detached and pretty exposed at the front where our bedroom faces as there is a large field ...

We have an 17 month old and this is our first home and don't plan (or can afford to move) anytime in the near future. I think we are going to have to have a massive look at the whole house in general going forwards as suggested.

It struck me as rather funny that you and I have completely different homes and utterly different lives, yet are dealing with the same linked set of issues. Our brains are working through the problem and coming to the same conclusions, but in the reverse order!

To explain ... I am the wrong side of 40, one cat one niece. Lived in my modern city centre apartment for well over a decade. Battled condensation damp and black mould growth each winter. Bad mornings involve the best part of a kitchen roll!

Thermal bridging is a factor our homes share: the windows here are doubled glazed but have broad metal frames with no thermal break. The other issue our homes share is inadequate ventilation. My flat is landlocked so no cross ventilation. Kitchen and bathroom fans installed so badly that they extract nothing.

I have long railed against a dehumidifier as a short term fix for the visible symptom. The problem is excess water in our respective homes and the root cause of that is us and our lifestyle choices. Very different to our 1903, 1943 or even 1983 predecessors!

Lifestyle modification is highly effective, and a period being strict helps reveal how much of the condensation is down to unavoidable overnight breathing or plaster slowly drying out, and which are your most problematic daytime activities. From previous threads on condensation here on MSE, air dring laundry indoors is the number one culprit for many families.

This winter I am nibbling away at the condensation damp/ poor indoor air quality issue in as many ways as possible, large and small, short and long term. Ironing four (new) curtains and four (old) thermal linings unleashed condensation hell on two separate 24 hour periods. The thought of washing, air drying AND ironing that lot next time ... :eek: I am two thirds sold on a Meaco Junior dehumidifier!

Sealing and insulating your traditionally constructed house to the hilt will lead to poor indoor air quality, which is increasingly recognised as a major hazard to health. Last spring I was very surprised to be diagnosed with the tail end of a six week chest infection. I got sick after a session deep cleaning by the window ... singing to the radio, big lungfuls of cold, damp and dirty air. doh:

Obviously you and your husband must decide whether you fling open windows for a good blast of field fresh air, upgrade your kitchen and bathroom extractor units, experiment with lifestyle modification, buy a dehumidifier or some combination ... but as before I hope my ramblings help your journey in some way.