Online in branch banking security

Timeclips

Hi,
I bank with a building society, where sometimes for convenience, I want to transfer money into my current account, then withdraw it.
Previously they had some privacy, when typing in the security numbers, etc, but now they have open plan, where anyone can see where your fingers are when typing. How can a password be covered up when I need two hands to type it?
I've told the society staff, that I'm not comfortable with open plan, but they say, that's it, like it or lump it.
Am I the only one to be worried? I remember the ATM cameras, not so long ago, where many people were scammed.
If you're as concerned as me, please voice your opinion to any similar bank or building society, please.
Regards TIM.

fwor

The risk inside their building is very much less than with external ATMs, when you think about it.

ATM-type fraud is carried out by a tiny number of people - typically taking the form of a small gang of people that travel from area to area.

Generally they will not want to follow people into a branch - firstly because CCTV inside the branch is typically top quality and carefully archived, and secondly because you can't just wander in and out of branches without a specific purpose regularly without arousing suspicion.

ATM-type fraud only works because it's accessible at all times - so it's easy to tamper with the equipment to fit cameras, loops, card readers, etc. That's a LOT harder to do in-branch.

eskbanker

Timeclips wrote: »

I bank with a building society, where sometimes for convenience, I want to transfer money into my current account, then withdraw it.

If you're concerned about perceived lack of security with what you're currently doing, why not consider alternatives, such as:

1. Withdrawing cash directly from the BS account rather than transferring via your current account
2. Transferring via online (or phone) banking in the privacy of your own home [what does the reference to 'online' in your title actually signify?]
3. Dropping the building society altogether and just using your current account
4. Using a different building society

I get that you'll feel you shouldn't need to do any of these, and they're not really necessary, but if you're uncomfortable with doing things the way you currently are, it's important to understand that there are alternatives - vote with your feet if necessary!

Timeclips

fwor wrote: »

The risk inside their building is very much less than with external ATMs, when you think about it.

ATM-type fraud is carried out by a tiny number of people - typically taking the form of a small gang of people that travel from area to area.

Generally they will not want to follow people into a branch - firstly because CCTV inside the branch is typically top quality and carefully archived, and secondly because you can't just wander in and out of branches without a specific purpose regularly without arousing suspicion.

ATM-type fraud only works because it's accessible at all times - so it's easy to tamper with the equipment to fit cameras, loops, card readers, etc. That's a LOT harder to do in-branch.

Hi F,
I have thought about it, and where my branch is, it would be easy to place a camera looking through the widow. I can think of other ways too.
Remember these small gangs, most probably sit around trying to work out how to extract other peoples money from them, and that's all they do.
With respect, you've got to think like a criminal.
Tim.

Timeclips

eskbanker wrote: »

If you're concerned about perceived lack of security with what you're currently doing, why not consider alternatives, such as:

1. Withdrawing cash directly from the BS account rather than transferring via your current account
2. Transferring via online (or phone) banking in the privacy of your own home [what does the reference to 'online' in your title actually signify?]
3. Dropping the building society altogether and just using your current account
4. Using a different building society

I get that you'll feel you shouldn't need to do any of these, and they're not really necessary, but if you're uncomfortable with doing things the way you currently are, it's important to understand that there are alternatives - vote with your feet if necessary!

Hi E,
To clarify, I sometimes am away from a secure connection, but still want to get money.
In the B,S I transfer money from my savings account to my current account, then withdraw it from and ATM. (covering my PIN )
My savings are in the highest interest rate account, I could find simply. The interest id high because I've been at the B,S for over 10 years. I do have other accounts in other B,S., so I have voted with my feet before, but here we are today.
I'm not just thinking of myself, but for me, it's just something I would like to see change back to how it was before, not open plan.
Tim

pafpcg

Timeclips wrote: »

I bank with a building society, where sometimes for convenience, I want to transfer money into my current account, then withdraw it.
Previously they had some privacy, when typing in the security numbers, etc, but now they have open plan, where anyone can see where your fingers are when typing. How can a password be covered up when I need two hands to type it?

There is a similar arrangement at my local Nationwide branch - the keyboard is visible through the branch's front window (but not the screen - it's at an angle which makes it impossible to view the screen's display). If I were ever to need to login to one of my accounts, I'd use the Nationwide card reader provided, making any recording of what I key-in practically useless. All that would be of any value would be my customer number that needs to be typed in, but as that's all numeric it should be possible to shield the numeric keypad whilst entering the ten-digit number.

Well done though for raising your security concerns with the branch staff - silence is assumed to be acceptance.

EarthBoy

I doubt that Nationwide are going to rearrange the furniture in the branch just for you. Use their app to transfer the money instead.

fwor

Timeclips wrote: »

I have thought about it, and where my branch is, it would be easy to place a camera looking through the widow. I can think of other ways too.
Remember these small gangs, most probably sit around trying to work out how to extract other peoples money from them, and that's all they do.
With respect, you've got to think like a criminal.

With respect, you can only think like a criminal by understanding how a crime works.

ATM fraudsters would gain almost nothing useful by sticking a camera on an ATM. The crime only works because they can stick on a camera and a card reader. The PIN is no use at all if you don't know the customer's account number.

I don't know the security procedures of every building soc (and although I have an a/c with Nationwide I have never needed to go through their in-branch security because I do everything online) but generally they don't make you type in your account number as well as you password/PIN. So even if they could somehow attach a camera to the window of the building without arousing suspicion, they would still only get a load of PINs and no account numbers. To a criminal, that info is near enough useless.

Admittedly, if both the screen and the keyboard were clearly visible from the window then with a fixed high-resolution camera it might be possible to read an account number off the screen - but I doubt that many bank or building society branches are set up like that. And they would still have to fix a relatively big camera to the window, and leave it there to record, and then retrieve it later - without getting caught.

Timeclips

fwor wrote: »

So even if they could somehow attach a camera to the window of the building without arousing suspicion, they would still only get a load of PINs and no account numbers. To a criminal, that info is near enough useless.

Admittedly, if both the screen and the keyboard were clearly visible from the window then with a fixed high-resolution camera it might be possible to read an account number off the screen .

Hi F,
I also think a camera stuck on the window would be seen:) It could be across the road.
I meant a camera looking through the window and watching which keys were pressed and which way the slider moves.
True, you can't see the screen from the side.
Tim.

Timeclips

pafpcg wrote: »

There is a similar arrangement at my local Nationwide branch - the keyboard is visible through the branch's front window (but not the screen - it's at an angle which makes it impossible to view the screen's display). If I were ever to need to login to one of my accounts, I'd use the Nationwide card reader provided, making any recording of what I key-in practically useless. All that would be of any value would be my customer number that needs to be typed in, but as that's all numeric it should be possible to shield the numeric keypad whilst entering the ten-digit number.

Well done though for raising your security concerns with the branch staff - silence is assumed to be acceptance.

Hi P,
Yes, the card reader may solve it. I wonder if everyone uses them?
I just find it a poor decision to move, what is a private thing, into full view.
Tim

societys_child

It could be across the road

:huh: Where across the road, have they bought the building opposite, or parked a van with dark windows in just the right position?