proof of delivery v.s. proof of postage

Aplomikanika

Hi

(I wished I had come across these forums earlier!!)

So my question is, having identified myself as the driver of a car subject to a PCN, is it too late for me to challenge the PCN on the grounds that it was posted too late? The debt collection company, DRP, has mentioned that under the 1978 Interpretation Act, proof of delivery is not needed once an item enters the postal system. In my correspondent with DRP, I have asked for proof of postage (not delivery) twice, but they have ignored it. I realise these letters are printed and mailed en-masse, but they could still provide information such as logs of automated monitoring tools stating a print and post job was successful.

To expand on this:

I never received a letter-only (no windshield sticker) PCN through the post and unfortunately did not open the reminder letter until too late after I had a subsequent letter from their debt collectors (DRP). The operator is UK CPM.

In all confusion, I have only corresponded with DRP so far, and through email. I asked them for the PCN, and after they emailed me the pdf of the original, I also admitted having been the driver under 'without prejudice' and offered them to pay the original reduced fine of £60, which they rejected. I subsequently withdrew the original offer for the time being so I could calm down a little and work out my options. This was all before I came across the MSE forums ;-(

According to the DRP the window for making an appeal or paying the reduced fine has passed (given I missed the original notice), so I guess I can at least argue this with them, i.e to reopen the appeal window or pay the reduced charge? Is it worth challenging at all on the postage v.s. delivery grounds? Given that I have identified myself as the driver I guess there is little point in going the vehicle keeper route?

For what is is worth, this is for an overstay of 8 minutes out of three hours allowed. The tenant, a sports centre says 30 mins grace period is allowed for drop off and pickups, but there is no mention whether the 3 hours includes or excludes the grace period. Those stating for more than 30 mins have to register their car on a pad and no receipts, etc are given.

Finally, I spent some time reading the stickies, etc, but did to find any information about proof of delivery v.s. proof of postage. Apologies in advance if this is a repeat of an existing question.

Thank you!

KeithP

Stop corresponding with DRP. You are wasting your time.

You failed to respond to the PPC's reminder letter in time.

You are now at the stage of ignoring everything unless you receive either a Letter of Claim or a County Court Claim Form.

You should now be reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.
Post #4 offers comprehensive guidance on how to deal with debt collector's letters. Post #2 of that thread will guide you should youevr find yourself heading to court.

Redx

the PPC has 6 years to enforce and invoice and although you can appeal at any time, they dont have to accept it because there are no actual rules, not until the MP,s sort the mess out as detailed below


https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html


you can send CPM a SAR to get all their data on you , to their DPO, in order to find out if and when an NTK was sent and where to and on what date


but as its in debt colelctor hands there is nothing else to be done, its either court or a 6 year time out, so gather your evidence beforehand

Aplomikanika

ok, thank you, so the wait begins!

Ralph-y

as above .......




but as well .......


complain forcefully to the [sports centre ... is they waffle demand the land owners details .... between them they can get this cancelled ! before court action !



had you have been here earlier you would have known about grace periods .... at least 10 min at the start and 10 min at the end of parking incident ...


as it matters ... they would in all likelihood have turned down the appeal even with such facts :eek:


Ralph:cool:

Aplomikanika

Indeed! The (UK CPM) are members of IPC, and IPC's Code of Practice paragraph 15.2 under Part B, Operational Requirements Applicable to All Operators, states:

"Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired."

I would like to have had a go at UK CPM (the parking operators) directly or to complain to IPC, but based on the above replies, I am guessing my argument about not receiving the PCN within the appeal period will not stand, even though they have ignored my request for proof of postage of the PCN. It is odd that they can (hypothetically) switch off their letter printers for a week thus causing lots of appeal windows to lapse but the consumers not being able to challenge it... I will wait for the court case...

Also thank you all for not rubbing in the fact that I admitted I had parked the car :-0

Umkomaas

I am guessing my argument about not receiving the PCN within the appeal period will not stand,

Frustrating as it is, there are so many cases where post appears not to have been delivered or not received by the PPC that one suspects a conspiracy on the part of Royal Mail as they are the common denominator.

The only route you have at this stage in the process is to persuade a Judge on this point. You are pushing at a wide open door here with forum regs.

Fruitcake

What ever else you do, please complain to your MP about this unregulated scam using the information in red from post 1 of the NEWBIES.

This really is the only way to get this stopped.

The_Deep

It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business. Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers. Read this one which I wrote earlier

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.