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Electric - SSE to Bulb - 2 MPANs for Night Storage - Help Please!
alexmchattie
Posts: 3 Newbie
in Energy
Hi everyone,
This is my first post so bear with me!
I've been going round and round in circles for a while now, and really hope someone is able to help.
We moved into our flat a year ago. The flat has two night storage heaters. The original tariff when we moved in was SSE Superdeal. This is a deal that worked as follows:
1) We have one supply (MPAN 2000011061424) for our normal electricity. This has a day and night rate (rates 1 and 2), where the deal had a day rate and a slightly cheaper night rate.
2) We have a second supply (MPAN 2000011061433) for the night storage heaters. An even lower rate applied for this, I think between 00:00 and 07:00.
3) SSE charged one standing charge, even though there are two supplies.
In summary, three meter readings and two MPANs all on one meter.
The meter is a Radio Telemeter Series K, Type: K222C03, with a serial number H06C 30607, if any of that is helpful.
I crunched the numbers, and Bulb's Vari-Fair plan was cheaper, with a low flat rate for all eletricity usage. So we switched. At the moment we're paying 13.5p/kwh with a standing charge of 2 x 23.39p / day = £170.74 / year (I know it seems a lot but it worked out marginally cheaper than SSE's tailored deal.)
After a few months, I realise I am being charged two standing charges, which seems like a significant disadvantage.
Bulb first told me "You have two MPAN numbers because your meter was simply configured to have two MPANs based on its type of meter. This does not mean you have two electricity supplies."
Me: One supply means one standing charge.
Bulb: "Due to you having what is called 'Related meters', which is where you have two MPAN numbers, this does actually mean that you have two supply points to your property."
Me: What's the process is for getting rid of the superfluous MPAN?
Bulb: "to de-energise an MPAN it costs £120"
...
I quote section 22F.11 of the Electricity Supply Standard Licence Conditions to Bulb, stating:
The licensee must take all reasonable steps to ensure that Domestic Customers which are subject to a Bespoke Heating System Arrangement are not at a significant disadvantage to other Domestic Customers when they: (a) seek to evaluate the benefits and costs of the Tariff that applies to their Bespoke Heating System Arrangement...
Bulb's response was:
"the area of the Electricity Supply Standard Licence Conditions does not refer to the standing charge, but to tariff rates. Having two standing charges, for your two related supply points, is something Bulb is able to charge you for..... We do explain the costs prior to joining with related supply points, so we have made this clear once we're aware of the meter set up"
(I checked all my correspondence with Bulb, and they never explained the double standing charge costs. Only one of the MPANs was on the documentation for the agreement.)
(Bulb continued: )
"In terms of de-energising your meter, the process would be to get an electrician to get in to wire the heating system into the main board, as you say. We would then remove the redundant meter, but it would cost £120 because it is non-essential work, with most people, it would pay itself off in 1 year, so it would have a quick rate of return, but in your case the smart meter option is better.
You should definitely arrange for an electrician to wire the heating system into the main board and make the second MPAN redundant, but you will need to wait until the smart meter roll out to do this.
The smart meter is connected to my main MPAN, and the second MPAN can be made redundant and a logical disconnection will take place as the meter is no longer connected to anything.
I have added a note to your account to this effect and it would be really help if you can contact us when we notify you about having a smart meter installed to confirm you still would like that type of set up."
This is the point that I have no hair left as I've pulled it all out.
It looks like my options are:
1) Suck it up and pay the additional standing charge. Cost: ~£80 per year
2) Pay for an electrician to rewire the storage heaters (£100), then pay for Bulb to remove the "redundant meter" (£120), and then take them up on a Smart meter early next year. Cost: £220 upfront.
A few thoughts on that though:
- Bulb can't seem to grasp that it's one meter handling both supplies, they seem to think they will remove the 'additional meter' - this would leave me without a meter as the two MPANs feed that meter....
- As they are rolling out Smart meters soon, instead of 13.5p/hr and a £170.74/yr standing charge, this would be a mix of 7.59p 11pm-7am, 11.27p 7am-4pm and 41.44p 4pm-7pm and a single standing charge being ~£85, which is much better.
Can someone with a bit more experience let me know if my thinking is right here?
What should I do / what would you do?
TLDR - 2 MPANs feeding one meter with 2 standing charges. Should I rewire night storage heaters into main circuit (£100) and have one MPAN de-energised for £120, or just leave it alone?
This is my first post so bear with me!
I've been going round and round in circles for a while now, and really hope someone is able to help.
We moved into our flat a year ago. The flat has two night storage heaters. The original tariff when we moved in was SSE Superdeal. This is a deal that worked as follows:
1) We have one supply (MPAN 2000011061424) for our normal electricity. This has a day and night rate (rates 1 and 2), where the deal had a day rate and a slightly cheaper night rate.
2) We have a second supply (MPAN 2000011061433) for the night storage heaters. An even lower rate applied for this, I think between 00:00 and 07:00.
3) SSE charged one standing charge, even though there are two supplies.
In summary, three meter readings and two MPANs all on one meter.
The meter is a Radio Telemeter Series K, Type: K222C03, with a serial number H06C 30607, if any of that is helpful.
I crunched the numbers, and Bulb's Vari-Fair plan was cheaper, with a low flat rate for all eletricity usage. So we switched. At the moment we're paying 13.5p/kwh with a standing charge of 2 x 23.39p / day = £170.74 / year (I know it seems a lot but it worked out marginally cheaper than SSE's tailored deal.)
After a few months, I realise I am being charged two standing charges, which seems like a significant disadvantage.
Bulb first told me "You have two MPAN numbers because your meter was simply configured to have two MPANs based on its type of meter. This does not mean you have two electricity supplies."
Me: One supply means one standing charge.
Bulb: "Due to you having what is called 'Related meters', which is where you have two MPAN numbers, this does actually mean that you have two supply points to your property."
Me: What's the process is for getting rid of the superfluous MPAN?
Bulb: "to de-energise an MPAN it costs £120"
...
I quote section 22F.11 of the Electricity Supply Standard Licence Conditions to Bulb, stating:
The licensee must take all reasonable steps to ensure that Domestic Customers which are subject to a Bespoke Heating System Arrangement are not at a significant disadvantage to other Domestic Customers when they: (a) seek to evaluate the benefits and costs of the Tariff that applies to their Bespoke Heating System Arrangement...
Bulb's response was:
"the area of the Electricity Supply Standard Licence Conditions does not refer to the standing charge, but to tariff rates. Having two standing charges, for your two related supply points, is something Bulb is able to charge you for..... We do explain the costs prior to joining with related supply points, so we have made this clear once we're aware of the meter set up"
(I checked all my correspondence with Bulb, and they never explained the double standing charge costs. Only one of the MPANs was on the documentation for the agreement.)
(Bulb continued: )
"In terms of de-energising your meter, the process would be to get an electrician to get in to wire the heating system into the main board, as you say. We would then remove the redundant meter, but it would cost £120 because it is non-essential work, with most people, it would pay itself off in 1 year, so it would have a quick rate of return, but in your case the smart meter option is better.
You should definitely arrange for an electrician to wire the heating system into the main board and make the second MPAN redundant, but you will need to wait until the smart meter roll out to do this.
The smart meter is connected to my main MPAN, and the second MPAN can be made redundant and a logical disconnection will take place as the meter is no longer connected to anything.
I have added a note to your account to this effect and it would be really help if you can contact us when we notify you about having a smart meter installed to confirm you still would like that type of set up."
This is the point that I have no hair left as I've pulled it all out.
It looks like my options are:
1) Suck it up and pay the additional standing charge. Cost: ~£80 per year
2) Pay for an electrician to rewire the storage heaters (£100), then pay for Bulb to remove the "redundant meter" (£120), and then take them up on a Smart meter early next year. Cost: £220 upfront.
A few thoughts on that though:
- Bulb can't seem to grasp that it's one meter handling both supplies, they seem to think they will remove the 'additional meter' - this would leave me without a meter as the two MPANs feed that meter....
- As they are rolling out Smart meters soon, instead of 13.5p/hr and a £170.74/yr standing charge, this would be a mix of 7.59p 11pm-7am, 11.27p 7am-4pm and 41.44p 4pm-7pm and a single standing charge being ~£85, which is much better.
Can someone with a bit more experience let me know if my thinking is right here?
What should I do / what would you do?
TLDR - 2 MPANs feeding one meter with 2 standing charges. Should I rewire night storage heaters into main circuit (£100) and have one MPAN de-energised for £120, or just leave it alone?
0
Comments
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Has anybody had any similar issues with night storage heaters? I'd really like to get people's thoughts on this as it's costing around £800 per year to run a small 1 bed flat, and I don't have much more hair to lose
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Hi Alex, Sorry to hear about your difficulty.
I'm having a similar problem. My flat has two meters and two mpans. One meter was for off peak heating that was removed years ago and is now redundant. 'Scottish Power' previously charged a single standing charge but a couple of years ago I changed my supply to 'Green Energy' who had no standing charges at that time. The problem came when Green energy withdrew their Zero Standing Charge and transferred me to 'Sparkling'. They are now charging me two daily standing charges of 27.59p and 26.10p per per day making the electricity now much more expensive than Scottish Power. Other companies are unwilling to accept two meters so I'm stuck with paying for an off peak meter which I don't use and I am now looking into having the redundant meter removed for £80. Should pay for itself within the year in saved charges.0 -
That also sounds really unfair - I'm amazed the regulator hasn't come up with an easy way for us to get rid of unwanted MPANs/meters... Surely they should be removed by the distribution network that installed them in the first place if they disadvantage the consumer!0
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There's a CMA report on related meters/ 2 MPAN supplies, the conclusion was that the tariffs generally offer a better deal than with a normal supply, but this was only if you're making the most of the off-peak heating.
This is actually one of the extra benefits to the smart meter roll out is that these supplies will be standardised to one MPAN.
Unfortunately suppliers are charged by supply point and most pass these costs on through standing charges like Bulb are doing. I'd wait to get a smart meter as you have to be offered one by the end of the year.
Or if you do use your storage heaters Scottish power and SSE have deals for this specific set up that are normally competitive0 -
alexmchattie wrote: »In summary, three meter readings and two MPANs all on one meter. The meter is a Radio Telemeter Series K, Type: K222C03, with a serial number H06C 30607, if any of that is helpful.
Alex, my parents are on this storage heaters set up with Scottish Power albeit with a slightly different model of the Radio Telemeter Series K (Type: K220G13). 1 meter, 2 MPANs, 3 readings but only 1 standing charge.
I'm looking into what a switch to Bulb would involve. Were you able to switch to Bulb and their Vari-Fair tariff without any work at all being done to your meters? If so, do you just manually supply the total of all 3 meter readings?0 -
alexmchattie wrote: »That also sounds really unfair - I'm amazed the regulator hasn't come up with an easy way for us to get rid of unwanted MPANs/meters... Surely they should be removed by the distribution network that installed them in the first place if they disadvantage the consumer!
Why they don't install them for fun? They are requested to be installed by whoever wants them! House builder, home owner, etc.
So why would some company that does not even own the meters anymore (all funded by asset management companies these days). want to change them for free when that is what is requested.
Much like I would not buy a house where at least FTTC was not available I would not buy (or rent) a house with a ridiculous meter setup. At least not without taking that into account as they can (should?, many people may not think to check) massively devalue a property. However at the time of the install they were probably the best option.0 -
alexmchattie wrote: »It looks like my options are:
1) Suck it up and pay the additional standing charge. Cost: ~£80 per year
2) Pay for an electrician to rewire the storage heaters (£100), then pay for Bulb to remove the "redundant meter" (£120), and then take them up on a Smart meter early next year. Cost: £220 upfront.
Have you considered Bulb's Economy 7 tariff? As far as I can gather (I've just started looking at this) that wouldn't require any rewiring and you'd just pay the £120 for a meter replacement and to de-energise the other MPAN.0 -
Hi there. We are having the same problem as Alexmchattie. The house came with a Radio telemeter Series K that had been installed by SSE. As it is a second home and we knew that we would not be using the storage heaters at all because they would not be cost effective for us, we decided to move to another supplier (Yorkshire Energy). They took us on as economy 7 customers and 5 months later told us that we have two MPANs associated to one meter and as such need to pay them two standing charges. We did not know this beforehand. At no point we were alerted that this would be the case.
We are asking YE to do a logical disconnection of the MPAM linked to the storage heaters. We have seen this information somewhere online. All they are offering us at the present moment is to go on a single tarif, which probably will be more cost effective for us, and to pay for two standing charges. We are not sure how they will actually manage the 3 readings that the type of meter we have provides and how they will convert it into one reading which presumebly is what is needed for single tariffs. In any case, aside practicalities, the problem for us remains that we do not see why we should pay for two standing charges. The move of suppliers was meant to save us money!
Since we find ourselves in this situation and YE only tells us know (five months later), we need advice from anyone out there who may have experienced the same problem. We believe that it would be best for the MPA linked to the storage heaters to be disconnected. And we believe that if there is any electrical work that needs to be done to the wiring connecting the storage heaters to the meter, then YE should facilitate the process and pay for it. After all they got us into this mess.
Help!!!0 -
Hi there. We are having the same problem as Alexmchattie. The house came with a Radio telemeter Series K that had been installed by SSE. As it is a second home and we knew that we would not be using the storage heaters at all because they would not be cost effective for us, we decided to move to another supplier (Yorkshire Energy). They took us on as economy 7 customers and 5 months later told us that we have two MPANs associated to one meter and as such need to pay them two standing charges. We did not know this beforehand. At no point we were alerted that this would be the case.
We are asking YE to do a logical disconnection of the MPAM linked to the storage heaters. We have seen this information somewhere online. All they are offering us at the present moment is to go on a single tarif, which probably will be more cost effective for us, and to pay for two standing charges. We are not sure how they will actually manage the 3 readings that the type of meter we have provides and how they will convert it into one reading which presumebly is what is needed for single tariffs. In any case, aside practicalities, the problem for us remains that we do not see why we should pay for two standing charges. The move of suppliers was meant to save us money!
Since we find ourselves in this situation and YE only tells us know (five months later), we need advice from anyone out there who may have experienced the same problem. We believe that it would be best for the MPA linked to the storage heaters to be disconnected. And we believe that if there is any electrical work that needs to be done to the wiring connecting the storage heaters to the meter, then YE should facilitate the process and pay for it. After all they got us into this mess.
Help!!!0 -
Yorkshire Energy and many other suppliers can bill you at single rate just by adding up both registers on an existing E7 meter.
Do the sums carefully: it may well be cheaper to stay with E7, even without storage heaters.0
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