Bailiff advice...

Craig1981

I work for a council in collections, and we use bailiffs as a last resort. I appreciate all you have said regarding what has happened this year, but, the only reason it would have gone to the bailiffs is if there was minimal contact/payments for your council tax

all you need to do is call the council, explain the illness, and asked this to be recalled from the bailiffs under vulnerability - then make a payment arrangement with the council to clear the debt.

if the council have put a SMI deduction for your wife, then they have the proof of the vulnerability, and should be no reason for this not to be recalled

GothicStirling

As above. This is not going to go away by blockading the doors. Make a repayment plan before they go to court asking a Judge to allow money to come straight out of a pay-check.

fatbelly

GothicStirling wrote: »

As above. This is not going to go away by blockading the doors. Make a repayment plan before they go to court asking a Judge to allow money to come straight out of a pay-check.

It went to court - the council got a liability order. If the OP had been working (and it seems they were), they could have applied for an AoE at statutory rates, which are pretty fair. If there was a basic benefit involved they could have taken from that - at £3.70 per week..

The issues here are that it does not appear that the council took notice of the OP's circumstances despite being informed of them and just passed it to bailiffs who pressured the OP to paying it off in full using money that was needed elsewhere. Including presumably £235 fees.

OP is now looking for an apology and an improvement in council policy.

This is the week in which research was released showing 100,000 in debt actually attempt suicide each year and refers to 'sudden triggers like intimidating and threatening letters'. It appears here that the council had been informed that the OP's partner was a suicide risk.

https://www.moneyandmentalhealth.org/suicide-and-debt/

nebakanezer

Craig1981 wrote: »

I work for a council in collections, and we use bailiffs as a last resort. I appreciate all you have said regarding what has happened this year, but, the only reason it would have gone to the bailiffs is if there was minimal contact/payments for your council tax

all you need to do is call the council, explain the illness, and asked this to be recalled from the bailiffs under vulnerability - then make a payment arrangement with the council to clear the debt.

if the council have put a SMI deduction for your wife, then they have the proof of the vulnerability, and should be no reason for this not to be recalled

Thanks, I appreciate what you are saying but there was contact. I had meetings with the council to outline everything that was going on with my wife. I was told that this would all be logged, to not worry about the letters, and to just wait for confirmation from dwp so I could fill in the SMI section of the form I was given.

I had meetings with CAB, had numerous phonecalls with the council and dwp. What could I do? It’s not as if I wasn’t being pro active in trying to resolve the matter. This was all whilst trying to care for my wife, and I don’t mean cooking a few meals, I mean having to chase her from leaving the house with a kitchen knife whilst I went to the toilet etc because she no longer wanted to be part of this world. I can tell you this is not my wife and has never been nor had reason to feel like that. This was a very serious illness that took over her, and one which has shocked everyone around her.

I have fought every day just to keep my wife alive, and the way these people went about their business was sickening to the core. As I said, I’m not trying to get away with anything, and I realise I’m not the first person that this sort of thing has happened to. But I’m shocked, shocked by it all to be honest, even one lady at the council kind of rolled her eyes when I said bipolar, like as if it’s something that just makes you a bit moody. I have seen OCD in people before as well, and most people laugh about it thinking that it just means you arrange your shoes in neat rows.

These illnesses are destructive beyond belief, for everyone around, but crippling for the sufferer. The nature of mental illness makes it even harder when trying to sort out bills and appointments etc. The processes which we had to go through meant that no money was coming in, hence the lack of payment, but again, I did explain all this to the council....

nebakanezer

GothicStirling wrote: »

As above. This is not going to go away by blockading the doors. Make a repayment plan before they go to court asking a Judge to allow money to come straight out of a pay-check.

I’ve paid them, and I’m not blockading doors or trying to get away with anything, I was asking the question about the procedures regarding vulnerable people. I lost my original post so maybe I haven’t put all the information across yet ...

nebakanezer

fatbelly wrote: »

It went to court - the council got a liability order. If the OP had been working (and it seems they were), they could have applied for an AoE at statutory rates, which are pretty fair. If there was a basic benefit involved they could have taken from that - at £3.70 per week..

The issues here are that it does not appear that the council took notice of the OP's circumstances despite being informed of them and just passed it to bailiffs who pressured the OP to paying it off in full using money that was needed elsewhere. Including presumably £235 fees.

OP is now looking for an apology and an improvement in council policy.

This is the week in which research was released showing 100,000 in debt actually attempt suicide each year and refers to 'sudden triggers like intimidating and threatening letters'. It appears here that the council had been informed that the OP's partner was a suicide risk.

https://www.moneyandmentalhealth.org/suicide-and-debt/

Thank you, this is pretty much it in a nutshell

elsien

If you can evidence the contact that you had, I'd go down the formal complaints route because it would appear that your contacts were ignited from what you've posted.

nebakanezer

elsien wrote: »

If you can evidence the contact that you had, I'd go down the formal complaints route because it would appear that your contacts were ignited from what you've posted.

I have stacks of paperwork and I’ve had numerous face to face meetings where I have stated categorically just how serious the situation was and how high a suicide risk my wife was. We were getting daily visits from the crisis team, and weekly psychiatrist appointments plus a dedicated care co ordinator who has written letters detailing the severity of her illness.

I have now written to our local councillor and I will be asking for a meeting. The money is of no consequence to me, albeit a real smack in the mouth after waiting all year for some help. I just want acknowledgement that this is a highly incorrect and extremely dangerous practice.

Herbie21

fatbelly wrote: »

The debts where they can force entry on a first visit are very few anyway: criminal fines in the magistrates court and HMRC tax debts.

Regarding vulnerability this CAB page seems pretty sound:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/how-bailiffs-should-treat-you/how-bailiffs-should-treat-you-if-youre-vulnerable/

On the subject of 'vulnerability', I have already pointed this error out to CAB in meetings so I am surprised that they are continuing to misled the public into believing that a person may be considered 'vulnerable if they:

HAVE CHILDREN...... or are pregnant - especially if you’re a single parent

This is complete nonsense. Paragraph 77 of the The Taking Control of Goods Regulations: National Standards provides that the following MAY be considered 'vulnerable':

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/353396/taking-control-of-goods-national-standards.pdf

The elderly;
People with a disability;
The seriously ill;
The recently bereaved;
Single parent families;
Pregnant women;
Unemployed people; and,
Those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

Nowhere in that list does it state that a person may be considered 'vulnerable' if they HAVE CHILDREN.

Herbie21

nebakanezer wrote: »

My wife has been so ill this year, sectioned in May, diagnosed with bipolar disorder, hysterectomy in July, and now the worst depression I ever though possible.

Phoenix debt collectors came literally an hour before we received the confirmation letter. Threatening to take belongings and costs increasing if my wife didn’t pay. This was during a 10 minute window when I took my daughter to school and our carer was stuck in traffic. Virtually the only time in months that my wife had been left alone due to extremely high suicide risk.

As many on this forum will know, my 'day job' (for the past 13 years) has been advising the public on matters regarding bailiff enforcement. Those that know me will also know that I am extremely passionate about the subject of vulnerability.

I have recently published analysis of six Local Government Ombudsmen's reports where the LGO make the point very clear indeed that evidence of vulnerability must be provided.

Another subject that I am passionate about is the Notice of Enforcement. It was only 4 years ago that bailiff regulations were overhauled and the position now, is that before a visit can be made, a Notice of Enforcement MUST be issued to the debtor. A compliance fee of £75 is added to the debt at this stage.

Crucially, the Notice of Enforcement invites the debtor to contact the enforcement company to set up a payment arrangement. This will avoid a personal visit being made and most importantly, will avoid an enforcement fee of £235 being added to the debt.

Did you contact Phoenix on receipt of the Notice of Enforcement to set up a payment arrangement?

Did you provide 'evidence' of your wife's vulnerability to Phoenix?

Was the evidence provided on receipt of the Notice of Enforcement?

When the personal visit was made, did your wife answer the door? Did she allow the enforcement agent into your home?