Bailiff advice...

nebakanezer

Hi sorry if this is the wrong section, I’ve just written a huge post and then I think I was logged out. I will try to repost but so that at least I log a post I’ll just keep this very short.....

Can bailiffs enter a property and threaten/enforce etc if a person is severely mentally unwell and on their own?

SandraX

The thing is high court bailiffs can enter a residential property through an open door/window or invited in. They are not magicians and cannot tell immediately if someone has MH problems.

Best to pay your dues and you won't get the bailiffs, sorry if this sounds harsh but a fact of life.

fatbelly

The debts where they can force entry on a first visit are very few anyway: criminal fines in the magistrates court and HMRC tax debts.

Regarding vulnerability this CAB page seems pretty sound:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/bailiffs/how-bailiffs-should-treat-you/how-bailiffs-should-treat-you-if-youre-vulnerable/

nebakanezer

My wife has been so ill this year, sectioned in May, diagnosed with bipolar disorder, hysterectomy in July, and now the worst depression I ever though possible.

I have fought all year, cared for her, worked when I could, seem to the kids, shopping, cooking etc.... CAB meetings, council meetings, assessments, phone calls, forms forms forms......

We got behind with our council tax due to no money coming in as a result of my wife’s illness. I visited the council on a number of occasions and was told just to wait for PIP award and then fill in a mental illness form... Phoenix debt collectors came literally an hour before we received the confirmation letter. Threatening to take belongings and costs increasing if my wife didn’t pay. This was during a 10 minute window when I took my daughter to school and our carer was stuck in traffic. Virtually the only time in months that my wife had been left alone due to extremely high suicide risk.

nebakanezer

We have paid, I knew I should not have just posted that. I lost the long story about having previously contacted Phoenix twice to make them aware of my wife’s illness..... there’s a lot to the story, I just had a big post get wiped

fatbelly

SandraX wrote: »

The thing is high court bailiffs can enter a residential property through an open door/window or invited in. They are not magicians and cannot tell immediately if someone has MH problems.

High Court Enforcement Officers do not have any extra powers of forced entry by virtue of who they are. The powers rest in the warrant.

They can of course make peaceable entry through an unlocked door whether invited in or not but the rules changed a couple of years back to disallow entry though a window - it has to be by normal means.

fatbelly

nebakanezer wrote: »

My wife has been so ill this year, sectioned in May, diagnosed with bipolar disorder, hysterectomy in July, and now the worst depression I ever though possible.

I have fought all year, cared for her, worked when I could, seem to the kids, shopping, cooking etc.... CAB meetings, council meetings, assessments, phone calls, forms forms forms......

We got behind with our council tax due to no money coming in as a result of my wife’s illness. I visited the council on a number of occasions and was told just to wait for PIP award and then fill in a mental illness form... Phoenix debt collectors came literally an hour before we received the confirmation letter. Threatening to take belongings and costs increasing if my wife didn’t pay. This was during a 10 minute window when I took my daughter to school and our carer was stuck in traffic. Virtually the only time in months that my wife had been left alone due to extremely high suicide risk.

OK, so the High Court thing is a red herring. The council got a liability order for arrears of Council Tax and passed it straight to bailiffs.

Do you get IS, JSA, ESA, UC or are you working? Any of those would mean they had options other than bailiffs, still do, and strengthens your argument for them to take the debt back in-house, which you should ask them to do.

You may want to remind them of

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/353396/taking-control-of-goods-national-standards.pdf

para 70-78 deal with vulnerable situations

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210478/Guidance_on_enforcement_of_CT_arrears.pdf

para 4.8-10 deal with people in vulnerable situations. Also see 3.5 which says they should consider other options before using bailiffs and 4.5 which says they can recall the debt at any time.

If your council is as bad as mine (maybe it's the same one!) you may need the help of your local councillor, who you can find/contact through

https://www.writetothem.com

just by putting in your postcode

nebakanezer

Sorry, I sound like a ranting idiot, like I said I’d written a really long articulate post and lost it and now I’m rushing to get information across.

I have no loans, credit cards, debts like that. I’m not trying to get away with anything, I’m not even bothered about the money even though we’ve struggled all year and they took what we had just before Christmas. I’m bothered about the affect it has had on my already desperately I’ll wife who was on her own for the shortest of periods due to extremely high suicide risk (between me having to take my daughter to school and the carer turning up).

I’ve done everything I can this year and done what ever I have been asked to do by the council etc. I realise how brutal these collectors are, and I don’t want anything. I just wondered if this really was plausible?

nebakanezer

fatbelly wrote: »

OK, so the High Court thing is a red herring. The council got a liability order for arrears of Council Tax and passed it straight to bailiffs.

Do you get IS, JSA, ESA or are you working? Any of those would mean they had options other than bailiffs, still do, and strengthens your argument for them to take the debt back in-house, which you should ask the to do.

You may want to remind them of


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/353396/taking-control-of-goods-national-standards.pdf

para 70-78 deal with vulnerable situations

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210478/Guidance_on_enforcement_of_CT_arrears.pdf

para 4.8-10 deal with people in vulnerable situations.

Thanks, my wife was in receipt of esa whilst I was caring for her. But as we found care and I went back to work, this was stopped due to me working 24hrs per week. We were then told to wait for PIP, which we did, but it was too late. As I said, I emailed Phoenix twice to make them aware of how ill my wife was. And also tried to make the council aware of all of this.

fatbelly

Well, it's completely believable because it happens all the time. Even where there is sensible guidance (like above) you will probably find the councils and the bailiffs they contract out to, ignore the guidance.

They use the bailiff route because it works, as you've demonstrated - regardless of whether that money should have been used for rent, heating or food.

At this stage all you can do is complain and try for an apology - good luck to you. Maybe, just maybe you will make them rethink their policy. That's where a good local councillor can really put pressure on them.

There is actually one local council (Lambeth?) who has decided not to use bailiffs.

https://love.lambeth.gov.uk/20160906-news/

nebakanezer

fatbelly wrote: »

Well, it's completely believable because it happens all the time. Even where there is sensible guidance (like above) you will probably find the councils and the bailiffs they contract out to, ignore the guidance.

They use the bailiff route because it works, as you've demonstrated - regardless of whether that money should have been used for rent, heating or food.

At this stage all you can do is complain and try for an apology - good luck to you. Maybe, just maybe you will make them rethink their policy. That's where a good local councillor can really put pressure on them.

There is actually one local council (Lambeth?) who has decided not to use bailiffs.

https://love.lambeth.gov.uk/20160906-news/

Thanks again, we are up north.... you are dead right, I said this to my wife. Phoenix get results, simple as that, and the figures are all the council are bothered about.

I have written to the local councillor and will pursue it purely from a humanitarian point of view. The money (albeit pretty devastating to my family at this time of year) has gone and is irrelevant.

By the way the same day as the bailiffs came the council issued a reduction in light of my wife’s illness!