Armtrac and BW Legal

Jukebox696969

Hi all,

I need some advice regarding a parking fine I received from Armtrac in December 2017....

After reading all the forums, i refused to pay the parking fine. Mainly because its a parking space that my company actually pays for, and that i have been parking the same car in the same spot with a valid ticket for the past 2 1/2 years. Typically on one cold day in December, the ticket unstuck from the windscreen (apparently in the year 2017/8, its way to hard to have a digital list of cars that pay over £800 per year to park in the space), and fell onto the foot-well of the car. Armtrac being the total morons that they are decided I deserved a ticket. They traced the car and sent me a barrage of letters claiming all sorts of things, then nothing for 6 months. However I now have a letter from BW Legal saying they are representing Armtrac to recoup the parking fine or £160. I have no intention of paying this, and i'm more than happy going to court given that i think the most i can lose is £175 if they are some how found to be in the right. But do i need to contact BW Legal to inform them of my decision, or do I just stay silent and see what happens?
Many thanks

nosferatu1001

If you have a Letter before claim, then you will be entirely aware, having read the NEWBIES THREAD, post 2, that you are required to respond.

Jukebox696969

Hi, Thanks for replying, all the information on here is amazing, however its completely overwhelming to me.
I still have no idea how you know its a Letter before claim, it doesn't state that on the letter as far as i can tell. It just states that the case has been handed over to BW Legal and i have 16 days to pay before they seek Armtrac's permission to take this to the claims court.
In the meantime, I have contacted the solicitors of the car park owners to let them know whats going on......

Le_Kirk

If it is 16 days to respond it is not a LBC, it is scaremongering. A proper LBC would give you 30 days to respond and would come complete with forms for you to complete -which you don't!

The_Deep

It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business. Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers. Read this one which I wrote earlier

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

beamerguy

Jukebox696969 wrote: »

Hi, Thanks for replying, all the information on here is amazing, however its completely overwhelming to me.
I still have no idea how you know its a Letter before claim, it doesn't state that on the letter as far as i can tell. It just states that the case has been handed over to BW Legal and i have 16 days to pay before they seek Armtrac's permission to take this to the claims court.
In the meantime, I have contacted the solicitors of the car park owners to let them know whats going on......

As said it's the BWLegal " 16 day rubbish letter"

Wait for the real LBC with 30 days to rebut. Then we can help you to give them a good kicking

Jukebox696969

fab, thanks everyone, I will store it along with the other documents i received from Armtrac and let you know when the next stage comes along.
I have no intentions of paying it, so will be going to court if it gets that far.
Cheers and Merry Christmas

Jukebox696969

Sent to the surveyors who manage the car park for the owners.
Afternoon all,

As you will see in my email signature, I work for XXXXXX, I am having some issues with Armtrac Security Services who “enforce” the car park.

In December 2017, my car which was parked in space 28 was given a PCN. Even though my company pay for my parking space, and the same car has been in the same space for months, on this particular occasion because it was so cold, my parking permit had become unstuck from the dash and dropped into the foot-well of my car after I had gotten out of the vehicle and walked to work.

Having refused to pay, mainly because my company pay your client, the car park owner, a lot of money for my space, Armtrac are now appointing a solicitor to take me to court.

I would like to contact the car park owners to let them know what is happening, as a company we pay a huge amount of money for a lot of parking spaces, so I think they should be made aware of how Armtrac are treating paying customers.

Disappointing Response

I refer to your email below and confirm I have forwarded this to our client. Our client is very sorry that this situation has arisen due to an unfortunate incident with your permit becoming unstuck and appreciates and understands your comments. Unfortunately we have no jurisdiction over Armtrac and whilst our client may have been able to try and assist at the time due to your valid reason unfortunately it is now too late for any intervention. I have called Armtrac who as I suspected confirm it is now out of their hands having been passed over to a debt collection department, who in turn have now passed to solicitors. Armtrac advise that you would have been offered a reduced payment at the beginning of your appeal.
Armtrac is employed to the benefit of all of the Licensees of the parking spaces to prevent anybody else from parking in your space. This is why a valid and correct permit need to be displayed. The onus is on every individual to ensure that their permit is displayed although I appreciate that you had your permit on display when leaving the car. I apologise for not being able to help any further in this instance.

Is this pretty typical from an owners representative??

Jukebox696969

1 of the multiple letters saying the same thing.....

28 June, 2018

Our Client:
Your Account No:
TNC Ref:
Notice Payment:
Administration Charge:
Total Due: Armtrac Services
E100.oo E70.OO
El 70.00

Contravention Information
Vehicle Make : BMW
Vehicle Registration:XXXXX
Parking Charge Date : 08/12/2017 11
Location : Kenwyn Mews Car Park, Truro Truro
TRI 3BY,

Outstanding Parking Charge Notice (PCN)
Dear XXXXX
Despite our letter of 31/05/2018, your PCN has still not been paid nor have you advised us that you were not the keeper or the driver of the vehicle on the date stated. HOWEVER THE TIME TO APPEAL HAS NOW PASSED.
As all correspondence to you has been ignored, any offer of reduced payment is revoked and full payment is now due DIRECTLY TO TNC. See overleaf on how to pay.
Failure to ACT TODAY by contacting TNC to make payment will result in TNC seeking approval from our client for passing your account to a Doorstep Collection Agent.
The PCN issued by our client to you has followed a number of legal principles including;
• It was issued under the guiding principles of contract law as signs at the location offered the 'parking contract' and by remaining the motorist accepted their terms. These were breached and subsequently a PCN was issued.
• The charge amount is in line with the findings of the Supreme Court decision in the landmark Parking Eye vs Beavis Case.
• Our client has followed all aspects of the British Parking Association Code of Practice.
The Information Commissioner and the DVLA each operate a complaints procedure to use if you believe your data has been inappropriately supplied to us. Information on how to complain can be found on the DV!-A and ICO Websites.
To settle now by card call our COLLECTIONS CENTRE on 0141 280 4900 or visit using the below details. Debt ID - Pli75462 Full Name - Shane Jury
Yours sincerely
Karl Knight
Parking Services Division

Jukebox696969

Received from my appeal

18 December 2017
Dear Sir/Madam,
Re: Parking Charge Notice Number
Site: Kenwyn Mews Car Park, Truro
Issue date: 08/12/2017
Thank you for your appeal received on 11/12/2017 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by the parking attendant. Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking.
We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by the parking attendant. Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking
Armtrac Security Services are not the landowner, we have been contracted by the landowner to ensure the clearly displayed site rules of parking are being adhered to. As this site is clearly signed that it is Private Permit Only Parking the landowner has requested that any vehicles left on the site be issued with a PCN, landowner's have the right to set the rules of parking on their land and the right to enforce those rules. The landowner at this site has stated that all vehicles that are permitted to park on this site will have already obtained a valid permit from the landowner and have it prominently displayed within the windscreen of the vehicle at all times.
All motorist's have a duty of care to abide by the clearly displayed terms and conditions of parking in return for permission to park on the site and Armtrac Security Services have a duty of care to the landowner to ensure the clearly displayed terms and conditions of parking are being adhered to.
Our Warning Signs clearly inform members of the public what the charge will be if they are to breach the rules of parking, these signs clearly state RETROSPECTIVE AUTHORITY TO PARK WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED. BY PARKING OR REMAINING ON THIS LAND, YOU THE DRIVER ACCEPT LIABILITY TO PAY THE PARKING CHARGE FOR ANY FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS CONTAINED WITHIN THIS SIGN.
We can see in the photographic evidence that we hold for this PCN that your vehicle was parked within clear view of one of our warning signs, therefore we feel that you have been made fully aware that this is private land and that any vehicle parked not displaying a valid authorising permit will be liable to receive a PCN.
We have approximately 300 sites and it is not always the same Patrol Officer covering a particular site and they cannot be expected to remember every vehicle that parks on a particular site, therefore the only way our Patrol Officers know that a vehicle is authorised to park is by them displaying the valid Permit or pay & display ticket. The Patrol Officer is under no duty to search your vehicle for the permit and should not need to if the permit is clearly displayed within the vehicle at all times.
All photographic evidence can be viewed online at by entering BOTH your PCN reference number and VRM.
Armtrac Security Services are not the landowner, we have been contracted by the landowner to ensure the clearly displayed site rules of parking are being adhered to. As this site is clearly signed that it is Private Permit Only Parking the landowner has requested that any vehicles left on the site be issued with a PCN, landowner's have the right to set the rules of parking on their land and the right to enforce those rules. The landowner at this site has stated that all vehicles that are permitted to park on this site will have already obtained a valid permit from the landowner and have it prominently displayed within the windscreen of the vehicle at all times. If any vehicles were going to be parked on this site without displaying a valid authorising permit then we would have been informed of the vehicle registration details so this could have been placed on our authorised vehicle list therefore exempt from the parking regulations.
We are therefore unable to cancel this Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly.
The case is now considered closed.
You now have 3 options from which to choose-
1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice of E60.00 within 14 days, after which time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the Parking Charge Notice will rise to El 00.00.
2. Make an appeal to the IAS. The Independent Appeals Service provides an
Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection. In order to appeal, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Please note that if you wish to appeal to the IAS you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of E60.00 and should the IASs decision not go in favour you will be required to pay the full amount of E 100.00.
3. If you choose to do nothing and the Parking Charge Notice remains unpaid after 35 days the matter may be passed onto other hands for collection.
You can send a cheque payable to Armtrac Security Services and please send it to Armtrac Security Services, PO Box 154, Penzance, TR20 9WD. You can pay online 24/7 at or alternatively you can phone the office Monday to Friday 9am — 5pm on 0371 2000 476.
Kind Regards,

Jukebox696969

From Armtrac
ARMTRAC SECURITY SERVICES
P.O. Box 154 Penzance TR20 9WD
KBT Cornwall Ltd. T/as co Reg No 8087077 Tel 0371 2000 476


Zone C
0013337101100000
REGISTERED OFFICE (ENGLAND & WALES): 2002 WENLOCK RD. LONDON N 1 7GU . PLEASE NOTE THE P.O. ADDRESS IS FOR ALL OUR CORRESPONDENCE
Your account has been passed to our legal team
Date: 7 December 2018
Account Reference: ZP4289
Outstanding Balance: El 60.00
Dear
As you have failed to make arrangements to pay your account Balance, it has now been sent to BW Legal, who are our approved legal service provider.
They will contact you regarding payment of the outstanding Balance. All future contact and con-espondence relating to this debt should now be referred to them with immediate effect.
You must call them on 0113 323 4479 — they'll be able to help you.
Their address is: BW Legal
Enterprise House
Apex View
Leeds
I-Sli 9BH
Telephone Number: 0113 323 4479
Web Address:
If you have any questions about this letter or your outstanding Balance, please call BW Legal on the number shown above.
Yours sincerely
KßT I-fdv 4--/ou Sec.vq•-U-g S eeÄ.c.ey
KBT Cornwall Ltd t/a Armtrac Security Services