NCP Railway parking - Cannot tell the difference between Cardiff and Newport - what are the chances?

kgerbil

Hi - what a great forum!

I have read the newbie thread (and a few other sources) - but wanted to share this one in case others have the same issue.

I received a ticket - but the ticket and all the evidence shows their records as issuing a notice at Cardiff Central Station - but the photographs show Newport Railway Station.

I sent the appeal below, admitting nothing, contesting nothing - but asking that they provide evidence that a breach of terms and conditions had been witnessed at Cardiff Central as asserted.

What are my chances of a 'we screwed up our admin' (despite so called 'slips' that I've read of) and just saying 'Go away, please don't do whatever attracted our attention again.'

If their evidence and admin is this untrustworthy (that would be my next gambit) then how can I ever trust their systems in future (as I use this (£10 a day) parking regularly for work.

I'm trying to find out the landowner to complain, but I certainly will to the railway station to begin with - but not sure how to play that one without saying too much - but I do know that I pay dash parking each time via mobile and location code but it seems NCP issue the fines.

I'll attach a (redacted) great image in their own evidence (only provided AFTER you submit your appeal online) clearly showing that they can't tell the difference between Cardiff and Newport - or rather, their record keeping is shabby.

SO - WHAT ARE MY CHANCES?
*ducks*

waamo

I wouldn't rely on a single point appeal. In theory POPLA should be a walk in the park however the nail technicians they employ sometimes do crazy things.

Add in the usual points especially around relevant land and no keeper liability. This is bound to be a byelaws issue.

Fruitcake

You might find the original PCN is cancelled, and a new one is issued at the other location.

In any case, it doesn't matter assuming the car park is covered by byelaws. It will time out after six months so you need to keep up the delaying tactics to get past that point.
You can ask Network rail and/or the Train company who owns the car park and if byelaws apply, or get the information from the Land Registry for a small fee.
Do this for both stations.

kgerbil

i.postimg.cc/bwhcqwpL/record.png

kgerbil

Above is image link (as a recent registrant, I can't post links or images (!))

I forgot to include my legalise opener:

Dear Sir/Madam
Re: PCN No. XXXXXXXXX

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the vehicle registered XXXXXX and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at the address listed below:

MY STREET
MY TOWN
MY POSTCODE

I am the vehicle's keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).

The above mentioned schedule specifies clearly that in order to issue a PCN:

"The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;"

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, proving a breach of parking terms and condition breach occurred at Cardiff Central Station (TfW) as asserted in your notice.


Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.


Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,
MY NAME
Keeper of the vehicle referred to above

kgerbil

Thanks for your prompt reply!

I've done the 'keeper/no liability' - just to let them know this might cost them more than £50 in admin... (and the £20 I already paid for two days parking - the alleged breach was not because I hadn't paid to put my car on their land as I have many times before) (and will never again, I add at this point - I'll park elsewhere and get a taxi in next time, as it is ACTUALLY CHEAPER than this!)

'relevant land' - is that what I've done? I've not said it explicitly - I've just got them to double check their records and hopefully give up rather than reissue. They may, but I think I should, as part of this appeal, contest that their record keeping is shocking.

Fruitcake

kgerbil wrote: »

i.postimg.cc/bwhcqwpL/record.png

http://i.postimg.cc/bwhcqwpL/record.png

Is this the image provided to you by No Clue Parking as a result of your appeal? If so, does the letter it came in quote the original PCN number?

I'm just asking for Ts to be dotted and Is to be crossed.

kgerbil

Thanks for the reply.

I imagine they will do this - but all that other stuff seems to be a lot more work (and time I don't have).

Fingers crossed - but I will call the station and, without admitting anything, submit a complaint simply that "Your parking enforcement doesn't even know what station they are at!" - and maybe that this all caused me undue worry as I wonder how I can prove my car was or wasn't at either station.

Fruitcake

kgerbil wrote: »

Thanks for your prompt reply!

I've done the 'keeper/no liability' - just to let them know this might cost them more than £50 in admin... (and the £20 I already paid for two days parking - the alleged breach was not because I hadn't paid to put my car on their land as I have many times before) (and will never again, I add at this point - I'll park elsewhere and get a taxi in next time, as it is ACTUALLY CHEAPER than this!)

'relevant land' - is that what I've done? I've not said it explicitly - I've just got them to double check their records and hopefully give up rather than reissue. They may, but I think I should, as part of this appeal, contest that their record keeping is shocking.

If railway byelaws apply then it is not relevant land and therefore the POFA does not apply. That's why I asked you to confirm that this car park is covered by byelaws, but I suspect it does.

Fruitcake

kgerbil wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

I imagine they will do this - but all that other stuff seems to be a lot more work (and time I don't have).

Fingers crossed - but I will call the station and, without admitting anything, submit a complaint simply that "Your parking enforcement doesn't even know what station they are at!" - and maybe that this all caused me undue worry as I wonder how I can prove my car was or wasn't at either station.

Everything in writing of course.

Add the comments in red from post 1 of the NEWBIES about the things our MPs have said concerning the unregulated scammers the railway company has employed.

Don't forget to complain to your MP as well.

kgerbil

Thanks! I bow to your seniority on the board (and ability to post images)!

(Love 'No Clue Parking' - I'm using that...)

So - these images were online.

I can pay online (although last night, they hadn't uploaded any details (!) but give themselves 48hrs - but were happy for me to call up, enter a reference number to the robot, for it to say 'we don't have a record for that yet - but how would you like to pay...?' (which seemed scumbaggery to me!)

So - to the point:

I go online, enter reg and reference, I can pay or appeal. I click 'Appeal' - typed in the above and attached copy of the notice they sent (clearly showing wrong station - but I did not draw attention to it - that is for them to realise See what step they make next. If they say "PAY THE FINE!" I'll go straight back with 'BUT I WASN'T PARKED IN CARDIFF - PROVE IT AS I ALREADY ASKED.' (but not in capitals))

So AFTER you've submitted your appeal, then the original summary form changes - and it provides you with links to each of the images of the ticket machine, signs, pictures of my car allegedly being naughty (ask no questions, I'll tell no lies).

All have the same header as the image: my reg, the wrong location, time and date.

There has been no written letter etc. yet (this happened last night, I'm dealing with it today) - there is no PCN number on the evidence - but they come from a webpage which does represent it...

Two more images to show you the innerworkings of NCP's faceless FineBot2000:

i.postimg.cc/C5NH37Nj/eviderecord1.png

i.postimg.cc/h4rLPCLm/eviderecord2.png