POPLA RESULT RECEIVED - Britannia Parking PCN

Jakeh_2

Hi there,

I've had a look through the stickies, but am rather overwhelmed with it.

Received a PCN for allegedly parking in a car park.

A bit of backstory - the driver had stopped in what they now know to be in a car park for 16 minutes (according to the PCN). The driver had stopped in what they thought was just an area of space. There was no lighting and no other vehicles parked in the area and it was pitch black. They could see no signs, no bays and nothing stood out which made it seem like a car park that required payment to stay in.


After the 16 minutes, the driver left. The parking ticket was received by post to the RK's address, me.


I tried appealing to Britannia through their website and explained the above. I also asked for photos of their signage to prove that even in the pitch black with no lighting that it was obvious payment would be required. I also asked for a breakdown of costs as £100 fine for 16 minutes stay seemed excessive. I appreciate this may not have been the smartest thing to do as I've never had a PCN before so I panicked and appealed straight away hoping that they would see sense... That was my mistake.


I have since received a response from Britannia Parking and they have refused to cancel the PCN and have provided me with reference number to take up with POPLA. They didn't provide a response to my requests for photos and breakdown of costs.


I am now going to take this up with POPLA, but wanted to check if I even have a leg to stand on or whether or not I should just get the driver to pay the reduced rate and be done with it.


Thanks for reading.

MistyZ

Looks like you may have revealed who the driver was in your first appeal, is that the case?

Whether that has happened or not, it is definitely worth appealing to POPLA. Wondering if the lights in the car park weren't working or possibly just plain non-existent... if you can find it on Google Earth you could check that. It certainly sounds like a contender for worst car park of the year, though there's stiff competition. Was this unlit area which is allegedly a car park associated with a pub or other premises who might give you more information ... or, indeed, get the charge cancelled?

Jakeh_2

Can't quite recall what was said in the appeal as it was a few weeks ago.

It's literally just a bit of land in the middle of the town. I don't think it's associated with any pub etc.

Google Maps show lights, but they definitely were not on!

Should I try and find a template to appeal to POPLA or freetype?

Thanks :money:

Umkomaas

Should I try and find a template to appeal to POPLA or freetype?

The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 will help you with the first draft of your POPLA appeal. It includes almost ready-to-use template appeal points (as long as they generally fit your circumstances).

Also do a forum search on Keywords 'Britannia POPLA' and pick out winning points from them.

HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

Hit your 'Back' button to get back to the forum thread list. On the bar just above the threads you'll see the 'Search' function. Click on the 'Advanced Search' button and on the following page place your keyword(s) in the 'Search By Keyword(s)' and make sure the 'Show Results As' button (at the foot of the window) is changed from 'Threads' to 'Posts'.

Fruitcake

Visit the site under the same light conditions and take photos without flash to show there are no lights and signs cannot be read.

MistyZ

Agree with Fruitcake. If at all possible, get back to the site after dark. Might be a real pain to do as you say it's a long way away .... do you know anyone who lives close by who could help out? You might as well say where it is .... who knows, could be round the corner from me and I'd be out with my camera rubbing my hands with glee!

Jakeh_2

Haha! Thank you


I'll keep where it is hush hush for now... but I am going to make the effort to go there and get some pictures. Will try to do this in the next few days whilst I come up with my POPLA reply.


Thanks for your help all.

The_Deep

but wanted to check if I even have a leg to stand on or whether or not I should just pay the reduced rate and be done with it.

IMO if this went to court they would have a very steep uphill struggle. If you could not read the signs you could nor knowingly agree to their contract. No contract, no beach of contract. Do not hold you breathe about winning at PoPLA however, if is funded by the industry and not entirely unbiassed. Please complain to your MP.

It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business. Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers. Read this one which I wrote earlier

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

Jakeh_2

Thanks for the reply!


On one of the templates I read I saw a point that interested me regarding planning permission for the ANPR cameras and advertising consent for the signage. I couldn't see anything online for this car park in question so I dropped a quick email to the council and this was their reply.


"as such installations are functionally connected to the use of the land they do not cause the LPA any concern and we propose no further consideration of this matter."


The response from the council in the template implied that they PPC had erected the cameras and signage illegally, whereas the council in this situation don't seem to care. Am I missing something?


Thanks

Castle

Jakeh wrote: »

The response from the council in the template implied that they PPC had erected the cameras and signage legally, whereas the council in this situation don't seem to care. Am I missing something?

The physical installation of the signs and cameras need planning permission, and that can be backdated, so the councils aren't interested. However, the signs will also need express advertising consent under "The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007" if they exceed 0.3Sqm. (This can't be backdated and it's an offence to operate without consent):-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/783/contents/made

Umkomaas

If you want to create mischief for the PPC, then you need to do it via the council. You've had a reply from an official - why not see what an elected member has to say. Especially if you can find one who has some antipathy towards private parking companies.

There's no further mileage on the forum in debating planning permission/advertising consent.