PCN Forest Pines POFA2012

Zingersboy

Good Evening all,

I hope you don't mind the starting of a thread by a newcomer, but i have read a lot of the other links/threads and just wanted to clarify a point or two.

Firstly the background - My car was parked at the Forest Pines Golf and Spa hotel in Lincolnshire, the car park has apparently very recently become managed by Civil Enforcement UK on the 1st of October 2018. It is free to park for hotel guests and users of the facility but you have 20 minutes upon arrival to enter your registration into a terminal (apparently this was not done and the driver was not informed to do so) or you get charged!

The date of the parking was 19th of November 2018. On the 10th of December i received a PCN for £100 (reduced to £60 as usual) dated 7th December 2018 which is by my reckoning 18 days later. I had no prior notice such as a windscreen ticket.

From what I have understood from other posts as CE ltd do not know who was driving and they have issued the ticket after 14 days as detailed within POFA 2012 requirements should i be able to appeal this? Should i do this directly with them or wait until after first appeal and go to POPLA?

Many kind regards

Redx

yes, you can appeal anyway but they appear to have failed POFA2012 so the keeper is not liable and is your main appeal point for POPLA

in the meantime, the KEEPER appeals it using the blue text template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, please read it

everything you need to know is in that thread, so no need to look at any others for the time being

do not alter the template, just use it to appeal as keeper using one of the methods they mention on the NTK


save your ammo for POPLA


ps:- ideally, insist that the hotel cancel it with CEL, its their contractor so they have the power

Guys_Dad

As long as the car isn't leased and the DVLA have you down as the registered keeper, they have missed the right to pursue the registered keeper.

A simple appeal on the one point of OUT OF TIME quoting POFA 9 (4) here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

should see the PPC off but do not admit who was driving

The_Slithy_Tove

CEL never use POFA, so as long as you don't identify the driver, they are a bit hamstrung (not that it ever stopped them trying).

Meanwhile, have you got hold of the hotel manager and given them hell yet?

Zingersboy

Thanks folks for the quick reply.

I assume by 'KEEPER' that you mean registered keeper of the vehicle?

And no the vehicle is not leased etc.

Many thanks

Redx

not necessarily


the keeper could be somebody else, but if the NTK is in the name of the RK, then the RK does it

rachel1989

hi there, just wondering how you got on with this? I have a fine from the same place and the date they 'issued' the fine is within 13 days however i didnt receive the PCN through the post until 16 or 17 days later. Possibly due to the xmas post. I'm unsure if POFA 2012 considers the 14 days by the time i receive it or by the time they send it. And i'm not sure how i could prove it either way?

I called the hotel to complain and they said they couldn't do anything about it. I told them i had the receipt for the coffee as i was only there for a coffee to meet a colleague, they suggested i send the receipt to prove i was at the car park as the reason they ask you to put your car registration into the system is because they have lots of people parking who dont use the hotel. I'm a bit unsure which way to go, surely if i can prove the hotel i was there, the hotel can get rid of the fine, but the woman said they can;t because the company is a 3rd party?

Any advice welcome as i am completely lost with this one!!

waamo

If you read the thread it contains all the information you need to beat the ticket.

The_Deep

It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers. Read this one which I wrote earlier

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.

Fruitcake

Rachel, you need to read the sticky thread for NEWBIES then appeal using the template you will find there as the original poster of this thread was also advised to do.

If you need further help then please start your own thread.

Zingersboy

Hi Rachel and everybody.

I am pleased to say that I got confirmation that the fine had been cancelled just last week. I have seen via social media that a lot of people are being caught out with the new parking arrangements here.

Also unlike some hotel chains or land owners the Hilton Forest pines seem unwilling to offer much help to customers fined in error!

I believe under POFA for CE to rely on owner liability the notice is regarded to have been delivered on the second working day after posting unless it can be proved otherwise.

But if I were you I would follow these guys advice and use the template appeal. They know what they are talking about.

Thanks to you all for the help!!