**I need help** Brittania Car park fine

Umkomaas

That's the sticky you're looking for.

Now each post has a number in the top r/h corner. This post is # 12. So scroll down the sticky - it's long, so keep going - until you reach # 3.

I hope you're not trying to do this on a phone - it's virtually impossible to deal with such a large forum on a phone.

System

Okay so I found post #3 titled **
SECOND STAGE APPEAL - POPLA OR IAS** should I read it all or specific part? Also is there a way of me showing my appeal rejection or first appeal? And once again I'm sorry for asking so much basic questions and taking up so much of your time and realise there are other people that need help.

Fruitcake

We need to know if the driver's name was given to Britannia when the original appeal was made. This will determine whether one of the major appeal points can be uses.

There is a whole raft of template appeal points in post 3 of the NEWBIES.

The PoPLA appeal should normally include the following points.

Not the landowner.
No standing to bring charge in their own name
Inadequate signage
Grace periods (there are two)
Non PoFA compliant Notice to Keeper. This doesn't apply if they know the identity of the driver.
ANPR inaccuracy which doesn't record time parked

Post your draft here for checking before you submit it.

MistyZ

Hi there.

When you did the original appeal, was there a drop-down menu that allowed you to choose who you are? E.g 'Registered Keeper', 'Driver' etc.? If so, can you remember which one you went for? (Don't worry if there wasn't a drop-down menu, but if there was and you can remember then that will help people here decide whether or not you identified the driver.)

And in the appeal itself, did you write 'the driver did this or that'? Or did you use the word 'I'? Perhaps you phrased things another way - can you just describe to us how you phrased it?

In your question above, are you asking whether you can show your first appeal on here? If the driver was identified in it, then it's best not to. It would be better to just answer the questions Fruitcake and I have asked.

Without being too paranoid, it is worth noting that the parking companies do look at this forum so that's why it is necessary to be a little cautious.

With a 14 minute overstay, I think you definitely do have a leg to stand on. It is just a matter of getting to grips with the things you need to do. It's always a bit confusing at first, but the regulars here are brilliant!

System

Thiis is what i sent via there website appeals and yes i qas asked for a name or i couldnt appeal so i put ehat the letter had said

Date 18/11/2018
To whom it may concern,
Re: PCN No. xxxxxx
I challenge this 'PCN' as Registered keeper of the car, on these main grounds:
The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified. Also, there was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate. Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality, they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.
The purpose of this communication is:
1.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case. If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.
2.
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed Ј15. Therefore, this is a formal drop hands offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at Ј18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.
3. I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.
You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.
By replying to the challenge, you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed Ј100. Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.
I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.
Yours faithfully,

System

This so there reply from yesterday...

Thank you for your appeal received on 23/11/2018 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice.
Your POPLA verification code is xxxxxxxxxx.
We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been
considered in conjunction with the photographs and any evidence provided. Our records show that the
notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of the
Car Park.
Please be aware that this site is an ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) controlled car park. A
camera photographs your entry and exit and matches this data against a payment made at the
payment machine.
The Parking Charge Notice was issued to the vehicle because a valid ticket was not purchased. It is the
driver’s responsibility to ensure that they have read and understood the terms and conditions for using
the car park.
The parking contract clearly states “By parking, waiting or otherwise remaining within the Property, you
enter into a Contract with the Operator and agree to comply with the Parking Contract”.
We are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) and we follow their Approved Operator
Scheme, the BPA Code of Practice, at all times. Section 13 – Grace Periods, details that we must give
the driver a reasonable period of time to enter the car park and purchase a ticket or leave the car park.
We have a 10 minute grace period at this car park. If the driver has not purchased a ticket or left the car
park by the time the 10 minute grace period has been reached, a Parking Charge Notice will be issued
for breaching the terms and conditions of the car park.
An online copy the Code of Practice can be found at this website .....
Please be aware this notice does not have to comply with a genuine pre-estimate of loss, as this is no
longer a legal test. This Parking Charge Notice protects a legitimate interest under ParkingEye Ltd v
Beavis. [2015] EWCA Civ 402
The value of this Parking Charge Notice is within the recommendations set out in Clause 19 of the BPA
Code of Practice. In addition to this, users of the car park are clearly informed that failure to comply with
the terms and conditions of parking may result in a Parking Charge notice being issued, with the
prospect of further costs being incurred should this notice remain unpaid.
Please be aware that you have been notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full.
You are warned that if, after 28 days, the Parking Charge has not been paid in full and Britannia
Parking do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any
unpaid part of the Parking Charge from the registered keeper. This warning is given to you under
Paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our
compliance with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.
Should we be provided with an incorrect address for service, we will pursue the registered keeper for
any Parking Charge that remains unpaid. Therefore after 28 days if you have not provided us with the
drivers name and address you will be liable to pay the Parking Charge Notice, regardless of whether
you were the driver at the time or not.
We have authorisation to act on behalf of the landowners, ensuring that the terms and conditions are
adhered to. We have full authority to issue Parking Charge Notices on their behalf.
The terms and conditions of the car park detail that your information may be requested and shared with
the BPA, DVLA , debt recovery agents and solicitors.
We are processing your information in relation to a breach of contract, additionally we are not relying on
consent as our lawful basis. Our lawful basis is contractual, and until the contract is resolved, we have
a lawful basis to retain your information.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
You now have a number of options from which to choose:-
1 Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate for a further 14 days.Please note that after this
time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the full Parking Charge Notice amount will then be due
within 14 days.
2 If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery
procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
3 Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service. Please note that if you wish to
appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate, and
should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount. If you opt to
pay the Parking Charge Notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.
Please be aware this notice does not have to comply with a genuine pre-estimate of loss, as this is no
longer a legal test. This Parking Charge Notice protects a legitimate interest under ParkingEye Ltd v
Beavis. [2015] EWCA Civ 402
The value of this Parking Charge Notice is within the recommendations set out in Clause 19 of the BPA
Code of Practice. In addition to this, users of the car park are clearly informed that failure to comply with
the terms and conditions of parking may result in a Parking Charge notice being issued, with the
prospect of further costs being incurred should this notice remain unpaid.
Please be aware that you have been notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full.
You are warned that if, after 28 days, the Parking Charge has not been paid in full and Britannia
Parking do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any
unpaid part of the Parking Charge from the registered keeper. This warning is given to you under
Paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our
compliance with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.
Should we be provided with an incorrect address for service, we will pursue the registered keeper for
any Parking Charge that remains unpaid. Therefore after 28 days if you have not provided us with the
drivers name and address you will be liable to pay the Parking Charge Notice, regardless of whether
you were the driver at the time or not.
We have authorisation to act on behalf of the landowners, ensuring that the terms and conditions are
adhered to. We have full authority to issue Parking Charge Notices on their behalf.
The terms and conditions of the car park detail that your information may be requested and shared with
the BPA, DVLA , debt recovery agents and solicitors.
We are processing your information in relation to a breach of contract, additionally we are not relying on
consent as our lawful basis. Our lawful basis is contractual, and until the contract is resolved, we have
a lawful basis to retain your information.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
You now have a number of options from which to choose:-
1 Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate for a further 14 days.Please note that after this
time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the full Parking Charge Notice amount will then be due
within 14 days.
2 If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery
procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
3 Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service. Please note that if you wish to
appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate, and
should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount. If you opt to
pay the Parking Charge Notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.
Please be aware this notice does not have to comply with a genuine pre-estimate of loss, as this is no
longer a legal test. This Parking Charge Notice protects a legitimate interest under ParkingEye Ltd v
Beavis. [2015] EWCA Civ 402
The value of this Parking Charge Notice is within the recommendations set out in Clause 19 of the BPA
Code of Practice. In addition to this, users of the car park are clearly informed that failure to comply with
the terms and conditions of parking may result in a Parking Charge notice being issued, with the
prospect of further costs being incurred should this notice remain unpaid.
Please be aware that you have been notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of
Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full.
You are warned that if, after 28 days, the Parking Charge has not been paid in full and Britannia
Parking do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any
unpaid part of the Parking Charge from the registered keeper. This warning is given to you under
Paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our
compliance with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.
Should we be provided with an incorrect address for service, we will pursue the registered keeper for
any Parking Charge that remains unpaid. Therefore after 28 days if you have not provided us with the
drivers name and address you will be liable to pay the Parking Charge Notice, regardless of whether
you were the driver at the time or not.
We have authorisation to act on behalf of the landowners, ensuring that the terms and conditions are
adhered to. We have full authority to issue Parking Charge Notices on their behalf.
The terms and conditions of the car park detail that your information may be requested and shared with
the BPA, DVLA , debt recovery agents and solicitors.
We are processing your information in relation to a breach of contract, additionally we are not relying on
consent as our lawful basis. Our lawful basis is contractual, and until the contract is resolved, we have
a lawful basis to retain your information.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.
You now have a number of options from which to choose:-
1 Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate for a further 14 days.Please note that after this
time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the full Parking Charge Notice amount will then be due
within 14 days.
2 If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery
procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
3 Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service. Please note that if you wish to
appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate, and
should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount. If you opt to
pay the Parking Charge Notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

Fruitcake

Good. The Keeper appealed and they don't know the driver's identity. Make sure you keep it that way.

Now you/The Keeper need to concentrate on constructing a draft PoPLA appeal. PoPLA codes last 32 days (although you are told it's 28) so you have time to do this.

If you struggle to do the whole appeal in one go, I suggest you do one point at a time. Read up on each one, then post it here for checking by the regulars, then move on the next point once you/we are happy with it.

System

The keeper is my father and I'm his driver so I will appeal to popla as my father but it is me (not the owner) who accused as my father doesn't even hold a license... but is it a viable appeal or should I just pay it as I'm struggling to pay the 60 let alone have it increased to 100 or more for debt recovery

Ralph-y

"as my father doesn't even hold a license."


you really need to make sure as advised above to not ever name the keeper ....


they will in all likelihood claim 'that the keeper was the driver '



which could be fun.



please do as Fruitcake advised and look / copy / paste / adapt sections from the newbie thread re POPLA appeals .... one section at a time if you feel that it will make things easier ....


please keep going and good luck



Ralph:cool:

System

Yea my father doesn't hold a license and I won't mention his name or mine in the appeal it's a motability vehicle and I am a nominated driver who does have a license but yes I will follow fruitcakes advice