New homes 'crumbling due to weak mortar'

EachPenny

ruperts wrote: »

They're called building inspectors, but ultimately they aren't much use if the regulations are weak or non-existent in the first place.

As I indicated, when have building inspectors ever been used to stand over every bricklayer watching their every move?

What part of the regulations do you consider to be weak in relation to the strength of mortar mixes used for residential property construction?

EachPenny

stuart45 wrote: »

Makes Mundic blocks look like high quality.

Nothing that some liberal use of high alumina cement couldn't fix.....

moneyistooshorttomention

Tomg84 wrote: »

Another reason why gagging clauses should be banned.

Can only agree - though I've only come across this personally in a very different context (ie people I know that have been sacked from their jobs - for a reason that would only apply in some parts of the country - hint it wouldnt have happened in England).

This happens in a variety of contexts - and I disagree with it in all of them.

jimbog

sal_III wrote: »

But there are at least as much horror stories of "old builds" as there are with new builds. The difference is that with the old build you are out of pocket.

With an old build you, well, know it's old and so have a survey carried out. You shouldn't need to worry as much with a new build. Or do you??

stuart45

jimbog wrote: »

With an old build you, well, know it's old and so have a survey carried out. You shouldn't need to worry as much with a new build. Or do you??

In an ideal world you shouldn't need to, but unfortunately as EachPenny has stated the quality control that you may find in other industries isn't as easy on a large construction site.
I noticed a change in the quality and attitude when the trade moved from directly employed workers to using more sub contractors in the 70's.

ruperts

EachPenny wrote: »

As I indicated, when have building inspectors ever been used to stand over every bricklayer watching their every move?

What part of the regulations do you consider to be weak in relation to the strength of mortar mixes used for residential property construction?

I don't know, Penny, I'm not that familiar with the specifics. But clearly there's a problem with either the regulations or the enforcement of the regulations, otherwise you wouldn't be starting threads entitled "new homes crumbling due to weak mortar", would you?

What do you think, we should just accept shoddy products as a fact of life?

stuart45

There isn't a problem with the regs as such. There are British and European standards for mortar, and the NHBC have a simple table showing the basic mixes.
The problem is the enforcement for every property built. Not sure how they didn't notice a gauge of 15/1, as I can tell if the mix is too strong or weak as soon as the hod carrier sticks it on the board.

EachPenny

stuart45 wrote: »

In an ideal world you shouldn't need to, but unfortunately as EachPenny has stated the quality control that you may find in other industries isn't as easy on a large construction site.
I noticed a change in the quality and attitude when the trade moved from directly employed workers to using more sub contractors in the 70's.

I think this is one of the fundamental issues. The old arrangement meant a homebuyer was purchasing a product from a company. The reputation of that company was important and it depended (amongst other things) on the quality of build.

The livelihood of the employees of the company depended on the fortunes of the company, which related to the quality of the product and reputation. In essence, if the employees did a sh*te job then ultimately they would be on the dole. There was a direct causal link between each employee's standards of workmanship and the job security of himself and his colleagues. Furthermore, each employee cared about the quality of work produced by colleagues, because the 'bad apple' placed all of them at risk.

As a result there was a self-enforcing system. You didn't need a Building Inspector standing over each bricklayer because each one knew that it was contrary to their personal interests to do a bad job. Corners would obviously still be cut on occasions, but the scale was limited by a form of mutual self-preservation.

The modern approach of sub-sub-sub-contractors employing agency staff to carry out a specific task on a project leads to a wholly different approach. The target is getting the job done quickly, getting paid, moving on to the next job.

It would be interesting to know whether the individual bricklayers involved in building the affected houses could even be identified. I have my doubts.

In other industries such information would be recorded. If a problem were identified with the workmanship of one person, then the records could be checked to find out what other items/projects they worked on so those could be checked too. Perhaps that is what the construction industry needs to think about doing, and maybe banning people who carry out consistently bad work.

Samsung_Note2

stuart45 wrote: »

There isn't a problem with the regs as such. There are British and European standards for mortar, and the NHBC have a simple table showing the basic mixes.
The problem is the enforcement for every property built. Not sure how they didn't notice a gauge of 15/1, as I can tell if the mix is too strong or weak as soon as the hod carrier sticks it on the board.

But lets be honest they are not hoddies any more,there young clueless kids who get given a tub of muck by people like me and they just shovel it straight onto the spot boards.

The amount of times ive had these "hoddies" shouting off the scaffold asking for F**ing blocks...when asked do you want want 3/7/10 ect...the reply half the time is "dunno the grey one"s"...yeah that really fills me with confidence :rotfl:

stuart45

Samsung_Note2 wrote: »

But lets be honest they are not hoddies any more,there young clueless kids who get given a tub of muck by people like me and they just shovel it straight onto the spot boards.

The amount of times ive had these "hoddies" shouting off the scaffold asking for F**ing blocks...when asked do you want want 3/7/10 ect...the reply half the time is "dunno the grey one"s"...yeah that really fills me with confidence :rotfl:

Years ago being a hod carrier was like having a trade. Even an experienced ordinary labourer would struggle to carry the hod up and down the ladders all day long, so the hoddies would normally have enough knowledge to knock up the mortar etc.
Nowadays the movement of materials on to the scaffold has been made much easier.