Stove Install - damage caused

minirolo

Hello all,

I think my account has been deactivated after not posting for a long time!:rotfl:

Anyhow..

Last week, we have a stove installed in our house, using a HETAS registered company. The stove install itself was fine, but the install of the CO2 alarm and damage to our floor is not.

The engineers did not consult with us before drilling and putting the CO2 alarm up. We have checked building regs part J and HETAS regs and it absolutely could have gone somewhere else - not in the overly prominent place that it is. Furthermore, they have damaged our floor to the front of the stove but have claimed that my wife said we were getting rid of the floor (we aren't and had no plans to) and have repeatedly said that if the floor was staying, they would have done differently. I have pasted the correspondence below and some pictures.

I would be grateful for some advice. Also, I can't remember if I did get the terms and conditions and am requesting the CCTV footage, but I will still like some advice either way.

minirolo

minirolo

Me to them:

Hello,

As discussed on the phone this morning, I have attached some pictures. Our main complaints:

1. No dust sheets - the engineers arrived with one dust sheet and we were expected to provide the rest - as you can see, I only have a white copy invoice and no terms and conditions stating we were to provide some. Despite the fact we were able to borrow some from a tradesmen friend (used, dusty dust sheets) this resulted in a rather large clear up for us.

2. CO2 alarm. Our alarm is compliant with Part J of building regulations, but, we were told ours was not compliant. The engineers then installed an alarm without any consultation and drilled into the wall and mounted it. We would not have chosen to have it there, and, indeed, we would prefer it on the alcove at the other side (still meets building regulations). We are disappointed he did not consult with us, and just put it up. We now need to remove it, fill the hole and make the wall good again.

3. Floor. Our floor has been damaged during the process - my wife did not notice this at the time as she was focussed on the wood stove, but similarly, it was not pointed out to her either. Had it have been pointed out, we of course would have understood and reported it back, but, it wasn't. Our floor is an interlocking wooden floor, so, it is not simple to just replace one 'plank' resulting in extra cost.

4. Cleanliness - We had to clean handprints from everywhere (curtains/windows etc). There was no attempt from them to clean up after themselves, which I would expect from a tradesmen. We had to effectively clean their handprints from everything and wash the walls and curtains down (as well as the dust).

We are happy with the look of the stove and we are excited to use it. However, we are disappointed in other areas which we will have to now pay extra money to fix.

Please advise on any course of action we are able to take and if you have any Qs re: the pictures, please do ask.


Them to us:

Hi,

Thank you for your email.

I’m sorry to hear of your concerns following your stove installation.

Regarding the CO2 alarm, regardless if your current CO2 alarm was compliant or not we have to install our own CO2 alarm as it is a legal requirement. We do not know the state of operation of your current alarm, therefor we have to install a brand new one in order for us to sign the job off. The CO2 alarm has to be positioned at leas 1 meter horizonal from the stove.

We apologise about the flooring, unfortunately due to how the flooring come up it has caused the breakage on the panel.

Due to the nature of the work carried out to install the stove there will be brick dust in the room which we have no control over. There shouldn’t of been any handprints on the curtains or the windows as there is no need for our fitters to touch them.

Our fitters use dust sheets to cover there work area as stated in our terms and conditions. This yellow copy was handed to you on your first visit when you placed the order with us, the white copy was handed to you on your second visit when you amended the chamber type you wanted.

I’m pleased that you are happy with the installation but also very sorry to hear of your disappointment with the rest of the work involved.

Kind regards,

Us to them:

Hi ,

Thanks for your reply. Regarding the CO2 alarm - our main complaint is not that we have to have one, its that it has been drilled into a wall (where we would have chosen a different wall within 1-3m of the stove, in accordance with building regulations). There were other places it could have gone. There was no discussion about its placement. We now have to relocate it, fill in the drill hole and re-paint. It would appear that your engineers was not fully versed in Part J of building regulations (attached in my previous email). This should not be for us to have to research after the event to discover it could have gone elsewhere (should it he have decided to discuss it with us).

The floor response is disappointing - they have not damaged any other piece of the floor at all, just that area. Unfortunately because it is a thick laminate floor that is interlocking and glued, the whole floor may need to be ripped up. If I was aware that I was liable for any damage caused to our property, I would have used an insured company, not one that puts it down to bad luck and I would have been expected to be told that. I chose the company because you are HETAS registered, therefore there is an expectation that workmanship is completed to a high standard and insured. Your workers, whether direct employees or sub contractors are expected to have their own liability insurance. If the sub contractor does not have their own liability insurance, the liability falls to you, if they are doing work on your behalf.

I don't have a response the handprints - there were there and we had to clean them off. The window was opened to provide ventilation and the curtains were moved in order to access our patio doors. He did not wash his hands before doing so and we had to clean them.

Again, I appreciate your responses, but they simply are not satisfactory - we have paid a lot of money for the stove and the install - we shouldn't have to expect to pay out more money to rectify issues caused. I went with your company in good faith as an assured HETAS provider.

Can you confirm you are not willing to investigate further? We seek a reasonable and fair resolution.

Please could you send me a copy of the terms and conditions?

Kind Regards,

Them to us: (yes, its hard to read - this is how it was sent)

Thank you for your email after speaking with the HETAS engineers the CO2 alarm was put in that position as the other side is to close to a window so couldn’t see another wall that would have been better, sorry for lack of communication on that part but you also state that you will have to fill a 5mm hole and repaint as the whole of the breast needs doing anyway HETAS regs for CO2 may differ to building regs. Regarding the floor your partner was asked (like every job we do) what was happening with the floor and told both our fitters it was going as the original hearth was so tight up to it, our fitters have to lift it up to get it out which lifted a bit of the floor this was impossible to avoid also the 3” gap around the hearth needs to be sorted, if when purchased you told us your floor was staying we could have ordered a special size one to cover the gaps we believe you were aware of the of the liability as you have signed the purchase order with our terms and condition that state you are responsible for floors covering clearing room .When you have a massive dirty job like this done there is always lots of dust and dirt the guys are not sub-contractors and work for us to our work polices, once again if your partner had said the floor was staying we would have left the job until it was all covered as per our terms and conditions our fitters always try to tidy up after themselves but there is only so much we can do as we are not cleaners The yellow copy you signed has all the terms and conditions on the back this is the reason we get you to sign and give you the copy so when we come to your house the room is prepared for use to do these big jobs we have checked back on cctv to check you received it and you did like we said if your partner had told us the floor was staying we would have postponed the job till it was all ready for us I’m sorry you are unhappy about this as we try and do our upmost to keep all our customers happy

I have not yet responded - pics shortly.

minirolo

Of course, as a 'new user' i can't post links to pics!

Any advice? Or are we wasting our time?

Thanks in advance.

Rolo

Gloomendoom

CCTV footage?

minirolo

Gloomendoom wrote: »

CCTV footage?

Apparently. I am probably requesting it in my reply. Even so, and even if I did receive the T&Cs, I'm still not sure where we stand (if anywhere good at all).

If you meant do we have some - annoyingly, we do have webcams around the house, but they were unplugged to allow access :mad:

FreeBear

minirolo wrote: »

Regarding the CO2 alarm, regardless if your current CO2 alarm was compliant or not we have to install our own CO2 alarm as it is a legal requirement.

I really hope they didn't install a CO2 alarm - That would be a pointless and expensive exercise. It should be a Carbon Monoxide (that is "CO") alarm situated between one to three metres from the stove. Not knowing the state of your existing alarm, or how old it is, is quite reasonable from their perspective. Fitting a new one would avoid the expense of sending yours off to be tested. That said, the guys that installed my stove were quite happy to sign off with the CO alarm that I supplied - It was fairly new and had the receipt to go with it.

Alex1983

If the hearth they removed was larger then the one they have now fitted what were you going to do with the gap that's no there, if your laminate was tight to the hearth then surely you realised there would be some damage to the floor.

The co alarm is a bit petty, it will be 1 or 2 small red plugs, if you want to move it I'm sure you won't notice 2 tiny filled holes.

minirolo

FreeBear wrote: »

I really hope they didn't install a CO2 alarm - That would be a pointless and expensive exercise. It should be a Carbon Monoxide (that is "CO") alarm situated between one to three metres from the stove. Not knowing the state of your existing alarm, or how old it is, is quite reasonable from their perspective. Fitting a new one would avoid the expense of sending yours off to be tested. That said, the guys that installed my stove were quite happy to sign off with the CO alarm that I supplied - It was fairly new and had the receipt to go with it.

Totally get it - when I upload the pics (when I can) you will see they had other options of where to put it - that was the gripe, not the fact we had to have one. Point taken on CO2 v CO!

minirolo

Alex1983 wrote: »

If the hearth they removed was larger then the one they have now fitted what were you going to do with the gap that's no there, if your laminate was tight to the hearth then surely you realised there would be some damage to the floor.

The co alarm is a bit petty, it will be 1 or 2 small red plugs, if you want to move it I'm sure you won't notice 2 tiny filled holes.

Points taken, and I appreciate the reply. Don't know what we are doing with the gap yet. They managed not to damage 95% of the floor and then rip one bit up (and their terms and conditions that I don't think I received, but have now via email) state they accept no responsibility for floor damage. I am aware we probably have no recourse, I"m just surprised that there are some lies being told and was enquiring as to whether or not we could take action on any of the points.

I suppose the CO alarm does sound petty - but there was zero discussion with us.

Risteard

It's not a Carbon Dioxide detector.

tacpot12

The damage to the floor is the most significant issue for you. The company seems to be trying to avoid their responsibility for making good around the hearth and repairing the damage.

In the dense reply they state "Regarding the floor your partner was asked (like every job we do) what was happening with the floor and told both our fitters it was going as the original hearth was so tight up to it," This is unlikely, as the homeowner would not care that the original hearth was tight to the floor, they would expect the fitters to remove the hearth using their expertise. The hearth could have been cut out without damaging the floor. It is also the case that your partner swears that they said no such thing to the fitters.

They go onto suggest that during the ordering process you failed to tell them that the floor was staying. Had you done so they would have charged you for something to cover the 3" gap.

It seems to me that either you both failed to appreciate that the new hearth would leave a 3" gap, or the supplier understood at the time you placed the order that the flooring was to be replaced. I can't see that they would have assumed you were replacing the floor, so should have asked at the time the order was placed what you expected to happen to make good around the floor. If they have failed to ask this basic question, they seem to be at fault. Similarly with the damage, once it is accepted that they cannot assume the flooring is being replaced, the flooring that is staying must be protected and any damage caused repaired.

Now the firm beleives that you were aware of some liability as you have signed a purchase order with their terms and condition that state you are responsible for "floors covering clearing room"

Given the confusing words here is unclear what the T&Cs actually say you are responsible for. If the T&CS make you responsible for removing all floor coverings prior to the work starting, you may have a problem. However, I feel that this is such a fundamental aspect of preparing for this particular work to start that burying this in the T&Cs is not fair, and that court would also see it this way. But you didn't receive the T&Cs anyway.

In summary, it doesn't really matter what your partner said on the day, because the issue should have been addressed by them at the point of ordering. They didn't do a professional job of assessing the work , so accepted an order that could not be fulfilled in way that was ever going to satisfy you, the customer. Had they assessed it properly, they would have determined that there would be a 3" gap and that a solution to hiding this needed to be found and agreed with the customer.

I think the CO detector issue is insignificant given the other problems. I would remind them that you expect them to pay for cleaning where the fitters weren't careful enough (unless the T&Cs make you responsible for protecting your property and you find that you were given a copy of them). I would restate that your partner did not say that the floors were staying and that even if she had, the fitters arrived thinking the floor could be trashed when this was not agreed. Your contract was for them to fit the hearth properly with no gap and no damage. Confirm to them that you never received a copy of their T&Cs, and even if you did, a fundamental requirement to lift existing floor coverings should not be buried in the T&Cs.

Ask their MD to call you within 48 hrs to confirm whether or not they will repair the floor. If they call but will not repair the floor, ask them to send a letter confirming that they will not and to confirm their reasons as their last email was very difficult to read.