Gladstone Solictors - Court action imminent

Neil_j

I have read the newbies FAQ introductory guide however, with the imminent threat of court action being taken by Gladstone Solicitors I need some advice on what steps I can take next, and what my chances are of winning in court. I have made some pretty glaring errors in appealing this case but this was before I knew what I know now.

A lot of the advice so far (external to this website) is to just pay, hence why these companies thrive. I don't want to be another easy paycheck for these predatory companies. I have spoken with the citizens advice bureau and they have also said that a potential court bill of £5000 awaits me if I don't win and to pay the £160 rather than take the risk. The newbies guide recognizes that their advice is misguided in this area. Also, having read the google reviews of Gladstone Solicitors, I'm not confident that if I made the payment they would stop chasing me. As this seems to be a reoccurring theme for a lot of people who have paid.

The circumstances of my case are as follows, ordered chronologically:
1) Aug-2016 receive letter from Parking Enforcement Ltd demanding £100 (£60 if paid in 14 days how generous)
2) Aug-2016 I send a letter to Parking Enforcement Ltd. I have paraphrased the content of the letter for anonymity. Obviously now I am not happy with the content:

• Parking charge reference number: xxxxxxxxx
• Vehicle Registration Number: xxxxxxxxx
• Date/Time of incident: xxxxxxxxx
• Place of Incident: xxxxxxxxx
• Name and Address xxxxxxxxx
• Appellant status: Driver and keeper

Parking charge notice says NO TICKET DISPLAYED however I did display a ticket. Admitted responsibility for placing ticket face down in rush to catch train for work. Enclosed photo evidence of valid ticket. Mention financial difficulty and feel £100 is disproportionate.

3) No response to letter from Parking Enforcement Ltd
4) Aug-2018 lodge appeal with IAS:
Parking charge notice says NO TICKET DISPLAYED however I did display a ticket. I did display the ticket however when I shut the car door it must have flipped over. This to me is reasonable ground to contend a £100 pound charge.

I have attached evidence of the ticket that I purchased.

I would also argue that the private company:
1) needs to prove that the ticket was not in full display
2) has the incorrect 'make' of the vehicle on the parking notice
3) does NOT specify a detailed location of where the car was parked
4) does NOT specify the number of the warden who issued the ticket

5) Sep-2018 Operator (parking enforcement) submit their case:

The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
The ticket was issued on xxxxxxx.
The charge is based in Contract.

The Operator Made The Following Comments...
The vehicle was issued with a PCN for breaching the terms and conditions outlined on numerous sign placed on site where bound to be seen.The signs state Pay And Display, the appellants vehicle was parked on site but the ticket that was being displayed was unreadable due to the ticket being upside down (see attached evidence)

They then upload some clear photos of my vehicle with the ticket face-down. The code on the back actually matches the code on my photo of the ticket.

They also upload a template of what their signs look like i.e. a google image. Although I am confident that these signs are on site it's been two years though so I think its unlikely they can prove what signs were present on that specific day in question the ticket was issued.

They also upload a sitemap that is comically vague.

6) Sep-2018 the Adjudicator side with the operator on these grounds:
Appellant’s pay and display ticket was displayed so it could not be read from outside the vehicle. common sense in my judgement that a ticket should be displayed in such a way as to allow anyone checking on parked vehicles to have all the key information visible to them. signage made it clear to the Appellant that if the parking ticket was not properly and legibly displayed a P.C.N would be issued.

In this Appeal the Appellant maintains that the wrong details have been recorded on the P.C.N itself. However the timed and dated photographs provided to me clearly show those details of this incident and the vehicle involved and they demonstrate that the Appellant was parked otherwise than in accordance with the terms and conditions as set out on the signage.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am satisfied that the parking operator has established that the P.C.N was properly issued in accordance with the law and therefore this Appeal is dismissed.

7) After my initial shock of the decision I decide to wait and see if its progressed further
8) May-2018 A second letter from Parking Enforcement Ltd. Demands £125 etc etc.
9) Oct-2018 Gladstone Solictors send me a robo-claim type letter with my details plugged in. Some of the key content is as follows:

Charge: £160.

We act on behalf of the claimant and have been instructed to commence legal action. You have failed to settle the debts that are owing or provide a valid reason for non-payment. Charge includes £60 for the time and resource spent recovering the charge (a couple of template letters totaling approx £1 cost including postage). In the event the debt is not paid we will commence legal proceedings.

If you believe you have valid reason for non-payment you are able to reply via a PAP (pre-action protocol). A version of this sheet can be found on the website. Before completing the reply form you must complete a login. Please reply within 30 days of this letter, anything out of this window will not be considered in legal proceedings.


10) Oct-2018 I then complain to Gladstone as I have major issues even logging into their website: When I try and create an account I do not receive a confirmation email. I have tried with multiple email addresses. How I can appeal if it is impossible to log into your website?
11) Oct-2018 They reply and when I next try to create an account it works. However their website does not have the links that are described in the letter to complete a PAP. It also claims amount outstanding £0.00
12) Oct-2018 I complain to Gladstone about this:
There is no option to complete a 'PAP' on your website even when logging into the user portal
13) they do not reply.
14) Nov-2018 Receive an email from one of their employees with the following content:

Please find the PAP Information Sheet and Reply Form attached.

Please return before late Dec (actual date is given)

In the event payment nor a response is received before this date, a claim will be issued.
Kind regards,
xxxxxxx
litigation assistant

15) this is the point I am at now. I have not completed the PAP as I don't want to make any more rookie errors.

If you guys can please explain to me what I should do next
The PAP has options to give a reason as to why no payment is made. However the examples given are along the lines of "incorrect credit liability" so I know my reason will not hold up at this stage.

I feel like I need to complete the form as they claim that it will delay proceedings by 1 month. However I don't want to incriminate myself further.

A few questions from me:
Will Gladstone have all a backlog of evidence with all the cases submitted via the IAS and parking enforcement ltd if it went to court?
What could be the max costs if I was to lose?

I have read online that they often hire someone for the day who has very limited knowledge of the case in question. My impression is that the threat of court action results in success for Gladstone Solicitors that frequently that they don't need to worry about the odd court case that they lose. But I am also conscious of the fact that even though I have a ticket with a code that matches the operators photo evidence, compassion has no place in Law. So I can see how the appeal has been upheld in a strict legal sense. The cost of recovery for Gladstone has been a roboclaim letter and an email, I am shocked that this constitutes a £160 fine. I will not raise this in court if it came to that based on what I have read in this forum. I am frustrated that the industry is so unregulated and they are ruining peoples lives.

I am less interested in the mistakes I have made in the build up to this case but more interested to know how I could potentially turn the odds in my favor.

Thank you !
:money:

onlyfoolsandparking

Turn the odds in your favour reading as many threads as possible that relate to the parking scammer you are dealing with, I couldn't read all you have wrote its like a novel (no offence) but what I will tell you is CAB are 100% incorrect with their 'you might pay £5000' ABSOLUTE GARBAGE!!!!!!


If this is only one PCN, you would be looking at a cost to you of between £175-£225 they cannot legally claim anymore and that is only if you lost.


You really need to read,read and read some more, learn about the game you are now playing.

Redx

what is the total sum they are claiming ?

a typical loss in court for one pcn is around £175 , so £100 for the pcn and £75 or so in court fees

so how many pcn,s are there ?

are they all for the same company ?

what are the full details of the actual parking company ?

the small claims court (now MCOL) maximum is £5000 , but unless you had dozens of tickets it wont get to that, so I think you have misunderstood

the NEWBIES FAQ thread tells you about LBC and MCOL in post #2 , plus advice and explanations etc


send the DPO of the parking company a SAR asap and get all they have, all their evidence


any IAS conclusions MAY be submitted by the claimant and/or gladrags to the court

Umkomaas

To whom does the Gladstones letter tell you to pay?

Does the reference number on the G's letter commence with a 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5?

The_Deep

They are trying t claim for more than the Law allows for this sort of claim. The down market solicitors whom the PPCs engage know this, but, because they are solicitors, know that a lot of people will pay up.

It is in fact double charging and non claimable debt collectors' add ons. Imo, this is fraud, or, at the very least, improper conduct.

Were this to get to court and win, the judge would be unlikely to award the claimant more than £175 - £200.

I urge you to report this grubby law firm to their regulatory body, the SRA.

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/code/content.page

as I am sure they do not condone this conduct.

Coupon-mad

I have spoken with the citizens advice bureau and they have also said that a potential court bill of £5000 awaits me if I don't win

First and foremost, make a FORMAL COMPLAINT to the CAB about that misleading and absolutely TERRIBLE and wrong advice.

If the adviser does not know what they are talking about re small claims then they should not guess, and make up costs that WILL NOT happen. The worst case is an odd losing person here, unlucky with a bad Judge, pays about £175 and the scam is over - no CCJ, no risk, nothing at all.

And 99% of people here still report a win when they stick around and get advice from start to finish, to help you through the defence process. All PPC cases are worth defending and if more people had the nous and guts to try, then the entire industry would fall over.

But please make that formal complaint to the CAB.

That Adviser cannot be let loose telling people such complete and utter codswallop about a scam PCN (easily defended) case where nothing is risked, not your credit rating, nor huge costs.

Neil_j

Hi Redx in relation to your questions:

there is only 1 parking charge. The £5000 is the potential fine that I could expect, according to the citizens advice bureau. there words not mine. I knew that that was inflated at the time but not my advice, theirs.

its one company Gladstone solicitors demanding £160. Which is the standard amount at this stage.

what are the full details of the parking company? I'm not sure what you mean by that but they're registered by the BPA so what does it matter?

Umkomaas

its one company Gladstone solicitors demanding £160. Which is the standard amount at this stage.

I'm not sure whether that is an answer to my question, or someone else's, but if it is an answer to mine, please have another go.

To whom does the Gladstones letter tell you to pay?

Does the reference number on the G's letter commence with a 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5?

Neil_j

Hi Umkomaas, the reference begins with a ref number starting 1

Umkomaas

Neil_j wrote: »

Hi Umkomaas, the reference begins with a ref number starting 1

Thanks for confirming. That's a standard G's LBC, so treat it as such (see NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2). All the other reference numbers indicate that it's Debt Recovery Plus using G's letterheads to exert pressure.

Redx

Neil_j wrote: »

what are the full details of the parking company?

I'm not sure what you mean by that but they're registered by the BPA so what does it matter?

because you mentioned appealing to the IAS which is the appeal service for the IPC, not the BPA

if you mean the PESS on the BPA AOS list, then surely it was POPLA you appealed to, hence my query because the IPC has a few companies listed under "PARKING ENFORCEMENT" under E and P etc

CAB may say they told you that the LIMIT for a court claim using MCOL was £5000 , dont take their word or ours on this, READ the MCOL site

if you only have one pcn, the claimant is likely to be claiming maybe £250 and they cannot inflate this to £5000 for one invoice, neither can anyone else sending you an invoice, not a plumber, or a garage, or a roofer etc

either you misheard, or they didnt explain themselves properly , either way for one pcn a claimant will likely claim less than £300 and after you object to the added spurious costs it may be up to say £200